MJ vs. Kobe

» July 31, 2008 10:09 AM | By Brandon Hoffman

Q:  Who would win in a one-on-one game, you or Kobe?

MJ:  Kobe would win, because I’m older.  But in my prime?  Not even a contest.  Let’s just say I have a better chance of stopping him than of him stopping me.

I’m fascinated with the Michael Jordan-Kobe Bryant comparisons.  It would be my ultimate fantasy matchup to watch MJ and Kobe go at it in their primes.  I don’t know which player would win.  I’ve long held that Kobe is the better scorer, but MJ was without a doubt the better defender.

Of course MJ is going to say he could beat Kobe.  And I’m sure that Kobe feels he could beat Michael.  Although he’ll never say so publicly.

But why should we listen to either player?  Neither one will admit defeat or show weakness.  It’s not in their character.  The very thing that drives great players like Jordan and Bryant can also be to their detriment.  They have enormous egos, are in love with their abilities, have unrattling confidence that they will succeed in any endeavor, and will take a backseat to no one.

Instead, I prefer to rely on the opinion of two men who have coached both players:  Phil Jackson and Tex Winter.

Lakernoise by Roland Lazenby:  “I tend to think how very much they’re alike,” said Tex Winter. “They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter, but Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don’t know if Kobe is a better shooter than Michael was at his best.”

Phil Jackson:

I’ve read every one of Phil Jackson’s books.  And Jackson has touched on the Kobe-Jordan comparison a few times.  When Phil decides to call it quits, there will be a tell all book.  I hope he devotes a chapter or two to this great debate.

Until then, I think it’s appropriate to end this blog with a few lines from an article Chris Ballard of CNNSI.com wrote:  “[Kobe], no matter what he does, will never get the chance to play the one game he’d die for: Bryant versus Jordan, each in his prime. “‘There’d be blood on the floor by the end,’ says Tex Winter, who has coached them both.”

[First video HT: TrueHoop]


89 Responses to “MJ vs. Kobe”

  1. Tsunami Says:

    Career Stats (Rounded):
    Paul Pierce: 23 Pts 44% FG, 6 boards, 4 assists (1 Ring)
    Kobe Bryant: 25 Pts 45% FG, 5 boards, 5 assists (3 Rings)
    Air Jordan: 30 Pts 50% FG, 6 boards, 5 assists (6 Rings)

    Pierce aint Kobe – but Kobe CERTAINLY aint MJ.

    Impressed you are posting things like this in the wake of Kobe’s embarrassing finals performance and in the immediate wake of him going 2-6 against Turkey in a game when Team USA shot 70%.

  2. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Tsunami,

    Again, I don’t think it’s fair to compare the two based upon their career statistics. Kobe came into the league out of high school.

    I didn’t think Kobe’s Finals performance was embarassing. He didn’t shoot a great percentage versus Boston. But neither did LeBron. Or Dwayne Wade during the regular season.

    And it’s it not as if Jordan didn’t struggle at times:

    http://ballerblogger.com/2008/06/17/kobe-vs-mj/

    I can’t speak about Kobe’s performance against Turkey. I haven’t see the tape yet. But two makes out of just six attempts is nothing to be ashamed of. One more make and he’s at 50%.

  3. Tsunami Says:

    Jordan played two years on a bad team when he was almost 40 years old. I think it’s a wash.

  4. Tsunami Says:

    No, i should not have said embarrassing. I didn’t think it was that bad – but clearly not at the level of his reputation.

  5. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Tsunami,

    “Jordan played two years on a bad team when he was almost 40 years old. I think it’s a wash.”

    Kobe may have had the athletic ability, but he didn’t have the knowledge in his first two seasons. The opposite could be said of Jordan’s stint in Washington.

    I see what you’re getting at. But I disagree. How many minutes per game did Kobe average in his first two seasons? How many minutes per game did MJ average in his last two seasons?

  6. xphoenix87 Says:

    I absolutely hate this “debate”. Kobe is not as good as MJ, period. There should be no debate here, this discussion only exists because we’re obsessed with these kind of things. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the two players in their respective primes are not even close.

    1) Jordan is, when you account for expansion and free agency, probably the greatest winner of all time. Especially considering the fact that he probably could’ve had even more titles if not for his first retirement, his 6 rings are just impressive, if not moreso, than Bill Russell’s legacy.

    2) Jordan, statistically, blows Kobe away in basically every category. He carried a bigger load over the course of his career and was WAY more efficient in how he scored his points. Kobe’s best season (05-06) wouldn’t even rate in Jordan’s top 5.

    3) Jordan played in a much tougher defensive era. The new hand-check rules make it significantly easier for guards to score in today’s NBA. If anything, Jordan’s stats would be more gaudy if he played right now.

    4) Jordan was, by almost any account, a superior defensive player. His quickness and anticipation were otherworldly. I watched his 63 point playoff game recently, and even that early in his career he was a defensive menace, blocking shots and jumping passing lanes. When he became a smarter defender later in his career, he was one of the greatest defensive guards the game has ever seen.

    Look, Kobe is the second-best shooting guard of all time. However, the gap between first and second is huge. MJ is the best ever. Kobe is good, but he’s not that good.

  7. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    X,

    What are your thoughts on Jackson’s assertion that Kobe is “more skilled?”

  8. xphoenix87 Says:

    “more skilled” can mean a lot of things, and Phil is certainly entitled to his opinion. However, the fact is that Jordan’s production during his career far outpaces Kobe’s (and everyone else’s for that matter). We can talk about “skill” all we want, most people would tell you that Lamar Odom is one of the most “skilled” players in the league, but few would say he’s one of the best.

  9. dirkdajerk Says:

    once/if Kobe gets a few more rings with some finals MVPs maybe then compare there accomplishments..now its not really even comparabe…as for “skill” Kobe is amazing..unbelievable at times…Jordan was all the time…watch videos and after a dunk or crazy reverse lay in Kobe sits there starrin at the camera…Jordan is hustlin back makin a still and tossin it up for someone else to slam. Or when they get the ball stolen…Kobe looks at the ref and whines…Jordan storms off after em pissed..then blocks there layup. Kobe is good..no great..no freakin amazin..even if he gets the rings the finals MVPs and the rest…he doesn’t have the competetive spirit and love for the game like Mike..don get me wrong…he has some..just not “IT”….and for everyone in other blogs who says the NBA is bigger and better then ever…ARE YOU SERIOUS..maybe sometime after school but before milk and cookies watch some of the Bulls finals from “back in the day”..

  10. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    xphoenix87,

    I don’t think Kobe is a better player that MJ was. I have my doubts that Kobe could beat MJ one-on-one. But I do think he’s more skilled than MJ was. Kobe is a better ball handler, passer, and his range extends to the 3-point line. MJ was much more athletic and his basketball IQ was higher.

  11. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    dirkdajerk,

    You made a good point regarding Kobe and MJ’s mentalities. Jordan never lost his cool, and when he did, it meant he was about to elevate his game. Bryant lets things he can’t control, control him.

  12. xphoenix87 Says:

    Again, it depends on how you want to define “skill”. Jordan was definitely a more skilled post-up player. He was more skilled at finishing through contact. I would argue that Jordan was just as skilled a passer as Kobe, if not moreso.

    Overall, there are plenty of things you could say Kobe is “more skilled at” than Jordan, but I don’t think it really matters. It isn’t about the skills as much as it is about what they did with those skills, and Jordan did more than anyone in history.

    (btw, just to throw it out there, I think if you’re talking pure skill, Pete Maravich has to be the most skilled player of all time. That man could do anything with a basketball.)

  13. King_Kaun Says:

    You’re all wrong.

    Steve Kerr could take BOTH of these flakes AT THE SAME TIME! 2-on-1 stylee!!

    M.J. should just GIVE Kerr 3 of his 6 rings…

  14. Miley-Cyrus-Fan Says:

    hmm.. thank you very much. usefull information

  15. Steve Says:

    First of all, I have to totally disagree with Kobe being more skilled than M.J. and I don’t care who made the comment. Coaches forget too over due time how great a player was in his prime especially when their supposed to be backing and supporting their current players. What Phil Jackson also said is that if M.J. were playing in today’s game, he’d be averaging 45 points! If you watch old Bulls highlights there will be no question in your mind that M.J. was at least as efficient and as creative of a passer as Kobe. Not to mention that M.J.’s APG was significantly higher than Kobe’s. In other words, if M.J.’s passing ability was at least equal to Kobe’s and he passed more often, how does that make Kobe better? If you watch old Bulls highlights you’ll see that M.J. drove the lane much more often than Kobe who prefers to hit jumpers from the outside. That means that M.J. had to dribble between several defenders before getting to the hole which requires much better ball handling skills than just standing there and hitting a jumper. Also, that was in a much better defensive era. As far as Kobe being a better three point shooter, show me an NBA finals game where Kobe hit six three pointers in a single half when it counted the most. Take a look at Jordan’s three point percentage in the 1996 season alone. I can’t believe people are still picking on his three point game. Give me a break! It might have been a weakness very early on in his career but I think he more than proved himself over the duration of his career as an excellent outside shooter. Besides, M.J.’s game wasn’t all about shooting 3’s but when he wanted to turn it up, he could do it at will. As for scoring, people continue to shock and amaze me who say that Kobe is the better scorer! Who has the most scoring titles? Who has the highest career PPG? Who has the highest playoff and finals PPG? Who broke the 3,000 point barrier with a 37.1 average for the year? All of this in a defensive era, not in a scoring friendly era! I’m sorry but I can’t relate to Kobe being more skilled or even close to M.J. for that matter and these are only points I’m arguing with that have been brought up already. There are a lot of other categories where M.J. simply blows Kobe away!!!

  16. Rick Says:

    I have to agree with Steve here when it comes to coaches forgetting how great a player was in his prime. Phil Jackson is a legendary coach but he’s a little confused about stats and “tares”! He said that Michael wouldn’t go on tares like Kobe who scored over 40 in nine games straight destroying the record books. Well, I have to completely disagree and prove it with stats here. In Kobe’s 2006-07 season where he scored over 50 four games in a row, it was launched off with a 65 point game that went into a 50,60,50 and then a 43 pointer. I only count 5 games in a row over 40 with 4 of them being over 50. However, in Michael’s 1986-87 season, he actually did score over 40 in 9 consecutive games starting with a 41 pointer that went into a 40,40,45,43,43,40,41,41 point explosion! Then later on during that same season, he scored 3 consecutive games over 50 starting with a 53 point game and then a 50 and a 61 pointer to follow. In his 1989-90 season, M.J. had another three game stretch where he averaged over 50 PPG starting with his career high 69 pointer and then 49 and 47 point games to follow. Michael didn’t going on scoring tares like Kobe? Huh? Are you kidding me?!?! Phil must have forgotten like everyone else! Also, M.J. had a lot more over Kobe than just big hands like his verticle leap, first step off the dribble, foot speed, power, intelligence, etc. I can go on and on!

  17. Rick Says:

    After further research, Kobe did have 9 straight over 40 points in the 2002-03 season starting with a 46 pointer and then a 42,51,44,40,52,40,40 and 41 point explosion! But let us not forget M.J.’s record breaking finals scoring frenzy in 1993 where he averaged 41 points throughout a 6 game series starting with a 31 pointer into a 42,44,55,41 and 33 point embarassment to the Suns! When did Kobe ever perform that well in the finals? When did he even come close?

  18. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Steve,

    Both Kobe and MJ possess a 5 assist per game career average.

    I’ll give you MJ’s six three-pointer game in the Finals. But you do realize that Kobe holds the NBA record for most 3’s in a game with 12 three-pointers in one contest?

    Bryant is a career 34% three-point shooter. MJ was 33% from the stripe. In spite of the fact that Kobe has taken almost 1,500 more three-pointers than MJ did.

    You said, “Who has the most scoring titles? Who has the highest career PPG? Who has the highest playoff and finals PPG? Who broke the 3,000 point barrier with a 37.1 average for the year?”

    Kobe’s career hasn’t concluded. His career average is influenced by his being drafted out of high school. Bryant averaged 35 points per game in 2006.

    And while I will agree that MJ played in a much tougher defensive era, I’m not convinced that that era began before his 37.1 PPG season. I’m talking about the Bad Boy Pistons and the 90’s Knicks. Which established themselves the season after Jordan’s career-high PPG season.

  19. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Rick,

    MJ was incredible. But even more impressive than Kobe’s nine game 40-point spree was the fact that he scored over 50 points ten times in 77 games in 2006-2007.

  20. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    I’m not arguing that Kobe was better than Jordan.

    But I don’t think you guys are giving him enough credit.

  21. Steve Says:

    Brandon, I don’t know where you’re coming up with your assists comparisons so let me set the record straight! Kobe has been deemed as one of the biggest ball hogs ever and here’s why… his average APG in his first 5 full seasons playing and as a starter and playing full seasons beginning in 1999, was only 5.29 where Michael averaged 6.14 his first 5 seasons not counting the 1986 season when M.J. was injured. These were juring the years when they were calling Michael the ball hog too!!! M.J.’s assists rose even higher during his championship seasons Where Kobe’s really didn’t improve so I don’t know what you’re talking about there. Secondly, if you were a coach, what would you rather have? A player who shoots 12 threes in a game that doesn’t mean anything or a player who shoots 6 threes in a single half of the NBA finals? If you pick the first choice, I will understand why you’re not a coach! This is not to mention the fact that Phil Jackson basically took Michael out of the game the second half only allowing him to take 4 more shots, two of which he made so his teammates would get more involved. Had Phil allowed Michael to continue on, who knows how many 3’s he would have made! To add to this argument, Michael’s game was more about driving to the hole which takes a lot more talent than stepping back and making a 3 which is more like Kobe’s game so I don’t know how that’s an advantage to Kobe when Michael is the one with most of the scoring titles and he had the higher shooting percentages as well! As far as Kobe’s career not being concluded, it didn’t take long at all for Michael to become Michael. How long is it going to take for Kobe to become Kobe? Let’s get real. We’re talking about the first 11 years of both of their careers. No comparison! And last but not least, what teams today are better than the early to mid 80’s Boston Celtics and L.A. lakers when it came to team defense? What do you think brought those two teams to the NBA finals over and over? When Michael had his stellar scoring years in 1987 and 1988, it was smack in the middle of both of those teams primes along with the rising Pistons! I again, don’t know what you’re talking about. Am I debating with someone who’s over the age of 21?

  22. Rick Says:

    Brandon, about Kobe’s 50 points 10 times in 77 games, two things… one, I challenge you to look up who Kobe’s best games were against and how good the teams were vs. Michael’s best games against his rival teams. As a matter of fact, I dare you to! Check out the win/loss ratio and how good their defenses were. Which player had their best performances against the best teams. Let’s just say for example… M.J.’s 63 point game against the Boston Celtics in their prime, in the playoffs and on their own their own floor! Like the 61 pointer M.J. had against the Detroit Pistons in their prime which is considered to have had one of the greatest defenses ever! Like the 54 pointer he had against the N.Y. Knick’s ferocious defense and in their prime, ect! Show me where Kobe has embarrased top quality teams like that and regularly. I’m dead serious, check out who did what against what teams and then compare the two after you have all of the facts. This is not to mention the hand checking rules and aggressive defenses they had in M.J.’s era that Kobe has never faced! If Michael were playing today, he’d be matching Wilt’s records! Secondly, if Kobe was Michael’s match and is considered to be his equal or as some say, even better, why did Michael have a 30.12 PPG average where Kobe’s is a little over 25 PPG? How come Michael’s averages rose even higher during the post season where Kobe has fallen apart during his last two finals appearances and wasn’t the MVP in the previous three? Why did M.J. retire with a near 50% from the field when Kobe barely averages 45%? Questions to ask yourself before making arguments for Kobe’s transparent status. These numbers are based on nightly performances, not NBA records so you can’t use the excuse that Kobe’s career hasn’t ended!

  23. Steve Says:

    I’m not trying to take credit away from Kobe Bryant. I think he’s the most skilled player in the league although Lebron is catching up. I think he’s an excellent outside shooter, he has great ball handling skills, he can be a very good defender and he’s a top student of the game. He’s explosive, he has fantastic moves and he’s a crowd pleaser. However, the problem with him is that these characteristics are inconsistant and he’s not able to turn up his top level potential at will which is one of the major things that seperates him from M.J. That’s why he’s so far behind Michael in almost every overall category both indivually and as far as his team accomplishments are concerned. That’s why he was not MVP in any of the finals he appeared in and why has been struggling to lead his team to a championship ever since. It is also why he will never be the winner and decorated player that M.J. was. It’s “the in betweens” these great scoring tares and highlight films that count. Like pivitol games during the regular season against teams that you might be facing later on in the playoffs when it’s important to rise above the occasion and take their confidence away. Like saving the best for last and somehow finding the will to demonstrate your top performances during the playoffs and finals. It’s even a single point in a game when you want to take the momentum away from the other team is when turning up the jets matters. These are the crucial times when you should be breaking records and blowing everyone away with highlights! Kobe doesn’t shine during these moments anywhere near like Michael did. He has the capacity to do great things but this game of basketball is all about timing and that’s where Kobe’s off. He simply doesn’t do it when it matters the most.

  24. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Steve,

    Michael Jordan Stats:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

    Kobe Bryant Stats:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

    MJ averaged 5.3 assists per game for his career. Kobe has averaged 4.6.

    You can’t possibly argue that Jordan was a better three-point shooter than Kobe. MJ took less threes for his career and connected at a lower percentage.

    I don’t think driving to the basket takes more talent. I think it takes more athleticism. Which Jordan certainly had.

    There is no comparison between the first 11 seasons of each player’s career. And that is because Kobe came out of high school and played second fiddle to an in his prime Shaquille O’Neal. If Mike had been drafted by the Lakers out of high school, he would have spent most of his younger years as a second option too.

    I don’t think the classic Celtics or Lakers teams were great defensively in 87 or 88.

    The Lakers were 7th in points allowed per 100 possessions in 1987. And 9th in 1988. That’s hardly stellar.

    Here is proof:

    1988 – http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1988.html

    1987 – http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1987.html

    Look at defensive rating.

    The Celtics were 9th in 1987:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1987.html

    Seventeenth in 1988:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1987.html

    As for your assumption that Mike ALWAYS played big in big games, I’d like to direct you to a blog that I wrote about Jordan’s performance in the 1996 NBA Finals:

    http://ballerblogger.com/2008/06/17/kobe-vs-mj/

    Jordan shot 41% against the Sonics.

    And yes, I’m older than 21. I’m 27.

  25. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Rick,

    Here is a game-by-game breakdown of every one of Kobe’s games in 2006-2007:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pgl.cgi?player=bryanko01&year=2007

    Be my guest.

    As I mentioned to Steve, I’d like to direct you to a blog that I wrote about MJ’s performance in the 1996 NBA Finals:

    http://ballerblogger.com/2008/06/17/kobe-vs-mj/

    Jordan was the greatest, but people have deified him since his retirement.

    As for the difference between their shooting percentages, I think that has a lot to do with the amount of three-pointers Kobe has taken during his career. As you know, a three-pointer is a much lower percentage shot.

    Take a look at the shot totals in Kobe and MJ’s statistics in the links I gave Steve. Kobe has taken almost 1,500 more three-pointers than MJ has.

    You could argue that that is a product of poor shot selection. And Kobe’s shot selection is definitely questionable at times. But he still hits three-pointers at a greater percentage than Mike did.

    Another thing to think about is the fact that it took Mike 7 seasons before he won a ring. Jordan was 27 at the time.

    It’s been four years since Shaq was traded. Kobe is basically learning how to be a leader now. And don’t forget that he’s only 29 years old. The final chapter of his career hasn’t been written.

  26. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Rick & Steve,

    Really enjoying this conversation fellas.

    If you don’t mind my asking, how did you find my blog?

    It’s great to talk hoops with knowledgeable fans such as yourselves.

    If you guys have a moment, you should check out some of my more recent blogs.

    Cheers.

  27. Steve Says:

    Brandon, first of all, I’m not counting a 39 or 40 year old M.J. who reduced his overall stats concering lifetime assists. Those 2 years being a Wizard really hurt his career stats. It wouldn’t be fair to stack that against Kobe’s career stats since he’s still young and in his prime even though M.J. STILL wins! We have yet to see how much Kobe’s stats will drop at that age if he makes it that far. I’m counting first 5 years vs. first 5 years and their primes as well. When Kobe’s assists drop to 2 per game at the age of 40 we can then have this discussion! Secondly, I NEVER said that Michael was a better 3 point shooter. Don’t put words into my mouth that never existed! I simply said that it wasn’t a weakness for M.J. and that when it really counted, he showed us all that he was not inferior what so ever in that category. I also mentioned that in the most critical times in Kobe’s career, his so-called superior three point shooting really hasn’t done him much justice now has it? What miraculous victories in the playoffs or finals has that quality made a difference? What good did it do him against the Celtics this year? As far as driving the lane not taking more talent, are you kidding me??? Lol! You have to have great speed, quickness, agility, vision, ball handling skills, toughness, verticle leap, power, strength, endurance, etc. to be efficient in that category. What do you need besides creating space for yourself and having a good touch to shoot from the outside? Let’s not forget that M.J. had that too! Now I need to touch on Kobe’s “out of highschool excuse”. Who’s fault is that again? Did someone hold a gun to his head and tell him not to go to college? I think it will help him in the long run when it comes to breaking NBA records and everyone will praise his holy name because of it but it has really hurt his basketball intellect. It’s like taking a highschool student who was an “A” student in biology, skipping college and turning him into a doctor!!! That’s the importance of education. Kobe missed a very pertinent step and that’s nobody’s fault but his own. Enough with the excuses! As far as him taking a back seat to a prime Shaq, how do you think that happened? Kobe DID try to take over the team in the midst of their championship reign and the Lakers were losing games as a result of it. It wasn’t until Kobe suffered an injury and was out for several games that they started winning with Shaq running the show. That’s when Phil Jackson made it clear who the team leader of the was going to be and ended the debate. Kobe had the same chances that Michael did. If Scottie Pippen was outplaying M.J. game after game as well as showing better leadership, do you think Phil would have allowed Michael to be the leader of that team? Three guesses and you’re out! The lakers and Celtics of the 80’s played great team defense! That’s all there is to it. The fact that they were not at the very top of the league may be a demonstration of just how great NBA teams were defensively at that time don’t you think? Can a team in today’s era win repeatative championships being 7th or 9th defensively? I don’t think so. You just proved my point even more! I find it interesting that you brought up the 1996 finals with M.J.’s performance. It was his worst of the 6 and yet not only did the Bulls win the championship that year but M.J. also got yet another finals MVP and yes, with a 27 point average throughout the series. Do you think that was a conspiracy? Do you think that the mafia was involved? Or… could it be that M.J. played well enough to deserve it??? Inquiring minds want to know! It’s been nice debating with you!

  28. Rick Says:

    Hey Brandon, when you said that Kobe’s three’s could be a product of a poor shot selection you hit the nail on the head there buddy! If it’s a shot that succeeds in lower percentages, why take them over and over? Is that smart? Isn’t the name of the game to find the easiest shot possible even if that means passing the ball? You might ask yourself why a player such as M.J. didn’t use 3’s as a major factor of his game. Smart? Well, let’s see… ummmmmmmm 6 rings perhaps? Just a guess! If you continually do something more often than the “other guy” you’re probably going to supercede his accomplishments there. Just another guess but I’m not sure that’s been to Kobe’s advantage since he seems to be having a lot of trouble leading his teams to championships! As far as Kobe’s career not being concluded, come on! How much better do you think he’s going to get after playing 11 years in the league? Yes, M.J. didn’t win a championship until his 7th year but he was still young in the league and growing each year and he had no supporting cast as well. This is not the same situation as with Kobe. He’s already tasted championship victories early on and knows the formula in which it takes to achieve them. Not to mention that he has the same coaching staff Michael had who are also now seasoned with championship knowledge. Furthermore, he does have a decent supporting cast so what’s his problem? What do you think it is? Now, no excuses. Just an explanation required! By the way, I’ve enjoyed these conversations as well. It’s a good debate!

  29. Steve Says:

    Brandon, since you tend to disregard the defenses throughout most of M.J.’s career with the exception of the Detriot “Bad Boys” and the 90’s knicks, I’m going to give you a little something else to think about. Michael gets 7 consecutive scoring titles and 3 more after his 18 month lapse during an era when some of the best defensive and top all around skilled centers who ever played the game were active. Kareem Abdule Jabbar, Mark Eaton, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Robert Parish, Dikembe Mutombo, Hakeem Olajuwon and Shaq. Most of these guys hold the records for blocked shots. When M.J.’s game was more about driving to the hole than shooting from the outside, he must have been pretty good huh? Lol!

  30. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Steve,

    You said, “I’m not counting a 39 or 40 year old M.J. who reduced his overall stats concering lifetime assists. Those 2 years being a Wizard really hurt his career stats.”

    And then you said, “Now I need to touch on Kobe’s “out of highschool excuse”. Who’s fault is that again? Did someone hold a gun to his head and tell him not to go to college?”

    You can’t not count the Wizards Jordan and then choose to count the 18 year old Kobe. You can’t have it both ways.

    If you want to do a real breakdown, I would suggest comparing them at the same age, season by season. But even then, you have to account for the fact that Kobe was the second fiddle to Shaquille O’Neal. Which isn’t anything to be ashamed of. Shaq was UNSTOPPABLE in his prime.

    I suppose getting to the basket requires talent. But I don’t know about skill. Speed, quickness, and leaping ability isn’t a skill. Passing, shooting, dribbling, and footwork are acquired skills.

    You also said, “Kobe had the same chances that Michael did. If Scottie Pippen was outplaying M.J. game after game as well as showing better leadership, do you think Phil would have allowed Michael to be the leader of that team?”

    Do you think Scottie can hold a candle to Shaq?

    You said, “The lakers and Celtics of the 80’s played great team defense! That’s all there is to it. The fact that they were not at the very top of the league may be a demonstration of just how great NBA teams were defensively at that time don’t you think?”

    No, I think that’s a mark of how weak the NBA’s defense was as a whole at that time.

    I think MJ was the leading scorer of that Finals. That’s why he was named MVP. And let’s be honest, he was already regarded as the greatest player ever. To give it to Scottie or Rodman would have been basketball blasphemy.

  31. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Rick,

    There’s no question that 2’s are a higher percentage shot than 3’s. But people take 3’s because they count for more. And MJ didn’t choose to shoot 2’s just because they were higher percentage shots, he was never a very accomplished three-point shooter.

    If you watched him — and I’m sure you did — MJ’s shot had a flat arc and didn’t lend itself to great accuracy from that distance.

    I don’t know if Kobe will continue to improve. But I do think he’ll make it back to the NBA Finals. Especially since Andrew Bynum is slated to return next season. We’ll see what happens if he gets another crack at the championship.

  32. Steve Says:

    Brandon, first of all, I’m not counting an 18 year old Kobe either. If you read what I said earlier, I was comparing stats from the first 5 (full) years which means that I wasn’t counting Kobe’s stats until 1999 which he was already in the league for 3 years. How much more of a cushion does he need? That’s more than fair considering that I DID count Michael’s rookie year! And again, playing second fiddle to Shaq happened because Shaq was a better player AND leader to the team. Can you compare Shaq to Scottie? Absolutely not! Let’s not get ridiculous. But what I will say is that if Shaq were playing on the Bulls instead of the Lakers, he would have been the one playing second fiddle to Michael. You have to remember that M.J.’s production was even greater than Shaq’s and so were his leadership abilities. Furthermore, I’m perfectly aware of what acquired skills are! I just gave you an example of “acquired skills AND physical abilities which are equally important. Dribbling, overall ball handling, seeing small cracks in defenses, having developed moves to get there, etc. are the some of the skills you need to get to the hole and nobody was better at that than M.J. To say that Kobe is even with Micheal in that respect is just goofy! Go ahead and compare age for age. By the time M.J. was 30, his personal and team accomplishments far surpassed Kobe’s! If you’re calling the 80’s defensive era weaker than today’s, I’m done with this debate! That’s absurd and it’s not worth commenting about.

  33. Rick Says:

    Brandon, Michael DID chose not to use the 3 point shot as a major part of his game. If you watched the 1992 finals with Marve and Magic calling game 1, it was discussed that Michael had been informed previous to that series that he was being compared to Drexler only that Clyde had a three point shot and he didn’t. Michael’s reply was that it was because he “chooses” not to shoot threes. Then he deliberately went on to destroy Clyde the glide and the critics by hitting 6 in the first half! Just to prove a point. A point most that people understood very clearly who weren’t all but 11 or 12 years old at the time! Watch that game and you will see what was brought to M.J.’s attention, what his verbal response was and how he immediately reacted in the very first game of the series rather than drawing your own conclusions. It sounds to me like no matter what is said or proven here, your goal is to bring Michael down to Kobe’s level or Kobe up to Michael’s. Not gonna happen! Anyone who truly loves the game and has followed both athletes careers knows that there’s a major difference between the two and it’s not because Micheal wore a good luck charm around his neck and poor Kobe has been brutalized by unfortunate situations. As for Michael’s flat arcing ball, he sure was able to shoot at 50% and sometimes beyond. This is from all ranges combined. It’s an overall stat and Kobe has not even come close to accomplishing that in or out of his prime. I think I’d take my chances with Michael’s flat arcing ball over Kobe’s reckless three point shooting! By the way, I’m 45 years old so if there’s any question of who really watched M.J. and followed his career, I certainly wouldn’t be the one in doubt! As far as these back and forth arguments I’ve been reading here concerning excuses for Kobe, let me set the record straight. If Kobe was coming off the bench at the beginning of his career and his stats were weak, maybe he wasn’t ready for the NBA! Maybe he should have stayed in school. Plain and sinple. If Shaq was the leader of the team and Kobe had to play second fiddle, maybe that means that Kobe wasn’t even the best player on his team, let alone anywhere close to being the best player in NBA history! Again, plain and simple. I have to comment on one more thing. You were talking about finals MVP awards when you said ” To give it to Scottie or Rodman would have been basketball blasphemy”. I’ll take that comment a step further and say that it would have also been plain stupid! Did either one of them ever outplay Michael in the finals throughout the series? I don’t think so. I’ve watched all 6 championships and if M.J. was ever in danger of losing a finals MVP award to another player, it was in 1996 against the Sonics. Many felt that Shawn Kemp was going to get it but the Bulls held out and won. Michael was never in jeopardy of losing it to a fellow teammate. You make it sound as if he won because of a name that he established for himself. He won because he earned it. I hope Kobe does win his first championship ever. After all, he is 30! Maybe he’ll finally be able to prove to the world that he can do it without one of the most dominating centers in history, a deep bench full of outstanding role players and a team full of former all-stars and players from previous championship teams. Go Kobe!!! People want to argue that Kobe had Shaq but M.J. had Pippen. That’s right! M.J. had Pippen. But Kobe had a championship team that was bought and paid for by the Lakers franchise. They even bought Phil Jackson. There was no way that team was not going to win championships. With or without Kobe that team would have still won. Take a long look at the roster of all three championship seasons when you get time and tell me that team had any chance of losing!

  34. King_Kaun Says:

    wow…cant believe this thread is still going…

    what a pointless debate. Steve Kerr could beat both of them while banging two supermodels AT THE SAME TIME!!!!

    Kerr for prez…

  35. Rick Says:

    Steve Kerr may have been good enough to shine their shoes and do their laundry. That’s about it!!!

  36. Steve Says:

    Brandon, I’m going to end this debate right now your way! So you can’t use the excuses that Kobe was either “too young” or “playing second fiddle” I’m going to give Kobe a huge break here and compare his last 5 years to M.J.’s first 5 with the exception of M.J.’s 1986 season when he was injured. Hope you enjoy!

    Kobe Bryant
    2003- Total points PPG APG RPG SPG Blocked shots
    1,557 24.0 5.1 5.5 1.7 28
    Michael Jordan
    1985- 2,313 28.2 5.87 6.5 2.39 69
    Wow! It looks like M.J. wins easily in every category and this is his rookie season vs. Kobe’s 7th!

    Kobe Bryant
    2004- Total points PPG APG RPG SPG Blocked shots
    1,819 27.6 6.0 5.9 .001 53
    Michael Jordan
    1987- 3,041 37.1 4.6 5.2 2.88 125
    I think it’s clear who had the better season here. M.J. wins 4 out of 6 categories by huge proportions. Kobe does do better in rebounding.

    Kobe Bryant
    2005- Total points PPG APG RPG SPG Blocked shots
    2,832 35.4 4.5 5.3 1.8 30
    Michael Jordan
    1988- 2,868 35.0 5.91 5.5 3.16 131
    M.J. wins 5 out of 6 categories! This is Kobe’s best scoring year and yet M.J. is right there with him but the main focal point is defense. M.J. destroys him in steals and blocks.

    Kobe Bryant
    2006- Total points PPG APG RPG SPG Blocked shots
    2,430 31.6 5.4 5.7 1.8 36
    Michael Jordan
    1989- 2,633 32.5 8.02 8.0 2.89 65
    Looks like M.J. wins in every single category! Scoring is close but Michael completely dominates in assists, rebounds, steals and blocked shots!

    Kobe Bryant
    2007- Total points PPG APG RPG SPG Blocked shots
    2,323 28.3 5.4 6.3 1.8 40
    Michael Jordan
    1990- 2,753 33.6 6.33 6.9 2.77 54
    Again, M.J. takes every category! By a significant amount in scoring, assists and blocked shots but look at the difference in steals!

    See Brandon, I don’t care how you slice and dice it, M.J. was a much better player. We can compare the first 5 years, M.J.’s best 5 years vs. Kobe’s or overall career accomplishments and it all comes out the same way! These comparisons are without Shaq and without the excuse of Kobe’s inexperience early on. This is also when hard fouling and handchecking was never called, an era that featured the best centers and during a time when defenses were better regardless of what you say! If you want to keep arguing in Kobe’s defense, argue with the stats! They say it all. Over and out. Steve

  37. Steve Says:

    Just for kicks I’m going to give you the averages from the numbers above. Michael’s first 5 years vs. Kobe’s last 5 years. These are the times in their careers when their ages are comparable but Kobe is supposed to have the edge in experience.

    Total points
    Michael Jordan – 13,608 which comes to a 2,721 point ave.
    Kobe Bryant – 10,961 which comes to a 2,192 point ave.
    Summary: M.J. scored 2,647 more overall points which is an entire season for an elite guard in the NBA and he also averaged 529 more points per season than Kobe! That’s a lot of points! Kobe is the better scorer? What? We haven’t even discussed overall shooting percentages!

    PPG
    Michael Jordan – 33.28
    Kobe Bryant – 29.38
    Summary: Once again, theses averages over a 5 year period show that M.J. was the more consistant and efficient scorer.

    APG
    Michael Jordan – 6.14
    Kobe Bryant – 5.28
    Summary: Again, I don’t see where both players are averaging 5 per game. M.J. clearly had more assists per game and obviously his passing was good enough to win him 6 championships so where Kobe is a better passer is a mystery to me!

    RPG
    Michael Jordan – 6.42
    Kobe Bryant – 5.74
    Summary: This is by a closer margin but M.J. is still the winner in this category.

    Total blocks
    Michael Jordan – 444
    Kobe Bryant – 187
    Summary: Are there any questions? This is a complete blowout in M.J.’s favor! He more than doubles Kobe in this category. I didn’t break it down in game by game percentages so it would be easier to see the gigantic margin here!

    SPG
    Michael Jordan – 2.82
    Kobe Bryant – 1.28
    Summary: Not even close! If I did an overall number in steals like I did above, this too would be embarassing for Kobe!

    Overall summary: How else would you like this broken down? This is Kobe’s best 5 years vs. M.J.’s first. Is that fair enough or should I give Kobe some more handicaps? Maybe a 1,000 point head start? Lol! This is why I can’t believe people when they say that Kobe is the better scorer or that he possesses better all around skills. Maybe they’re confusing the word “better” with the word “lesser”!!! I don’t see their argument in any category. Maybe he’s a “more skilled” chef or something and we’re just not seeing it on the basketball court!

  38. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Steve,

    If you go five years back, you’re venturing into the time Kobe was Shaq’s sidekick. So comparing total points and points per game is skewed. As is rebounds, since Kobe was playing with a dominant center that gobbled up most of the boards.

    Steals and blocks are fair comparisons since they are strictly individual numbers.

    I never said that Kobe was better than MJ.

    And I think you have a point with regards to handchecking. But team defenses are far more complicated in today’s NBA than they were in Jordan’s era. It’s evolution. Coaches simply know more than they did then.

    Shaq wouldn’t have played second fiddle to a young Jordan. I think you’re severely underestimating how dominant O’Neal was. He led the league in field goal percentage in six of the seven seasons he played with Kobe. When you have a guy that shoots almost 60% from the field, he’s the number one option, I don’t care who you have playing on the perimeter.

    I’m sorry Steve. But you have absolutely no argument there.

    Jordan NEVER led the league in field goal percentage. That’s not a knock on MJ. It’s just the nature of his position. The NBA has and always will be a big man’s game.

  39. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    And no, the Lakers wouldn’t have won championships without Kobe. Everyone remembers Shaq winning Finals MVP’s. But the Finals were a foregone conclusion. The real battles were waged on the path to the Finals.

    Shaq and Kobe met the San Antonio Spurs five times during their time together. Kobe was the leading scorer in four of those series. Not to mention his clutch performances against the Kings and Blazers.

    I don’t think Kobe is better than MJ was right now.

    But give the man his due.

  40. Steve Says:

    I read your article on this subject and I have to say a couple of more things about your bashing of M.J. during the 1996 Bulls/Sonics series. First of all, you’re comparing M.J.’s worst finals performance to Kobe’s average finals performance. The funny thing is that M.J. still managed to score 2 more points per game during that series than Kobe’s career PPG! Furthermore, why don’t you shove Kobe in the middle of the rest of M.J.’s finals performances? Compare him to the 1993 finals or any other for that matter. Afraid? You should be! Secondly, there’s a huge difference between being directly guarded by the NBA’s defensive player of the year as opposed to going up against the NBA’s defensive player of the year who is merely leading his team but not guarding you! Besides M.J. and Gary Payton, how many other guards won defensive player of the year in that era? Do you have any idea how difficult that was for a guard to achieve? I think M.J. did just fine considering the circumstances. Third of all, we can’t compare two great defensive teams like today’s Celtics vs. yesterday’s Sonics unless we include the same league rules can we? Do you have any idea what so ever what hand checking is and what hard fouling is? Have you ever stopped to consider how much more difficult it would be for a player to perform offensively in that situation as opposed to having very little contact? Fourth of all, Pippen WAS great in his respected position and so was Rodman. I find it interesting that you seem to have no trouble giving those two credit yet you seem to struggle with giving the greatest player to have ever played the game in any position credit! And last but definately not least, the biggest difference in these finals comparisons where you’ve been making an attempt to find M.J.’s weakness while elevating Kobe, is that M.J. STILL managed to lead his team to yet ANOTHER championship. Something that Kobe has yet to do ONCE!!! You’re bringing up some really poor examples.

  41. Steve Says:

    Brandon, you’re simply amazing and incredibly in denial as well! I layed it all out in black and white for you and you’re STILL making excuses for Kobe! It’s astonishing!!! I compared the first 5 years and you made excuses that Kobe was coming out of highschool. So I used Kobe’s last 5 years and now it’s that Shaq was around 5 years ago. What is your excuse for the last three years and why M.J.’s numbers still dominated? Kobe’s rape case? It distracted him? What are you going to come up with next??? He ate rat poising with his Lucky Charms? You absolutely refuse to see the truth here. KOBE IS NOT CLOSE TO MICHAEL AND NEVER WILL BE!!! Plain and simple. You’re not at all intrigued with the match up as you stated at the beginning of this site or you would be open to learning something here. Instead, you’re very closed minded because you’re obsessed with making Kobe “like Mike”! And it doesn’t matter that his personal or team stats are no where near M.J.’s so where are you possibly basing these ridiculous assumptions from? What ground do you have to speak on? As far as the game always being a big man’s game, true. Until the changing of the guard which began in the M.J. era. What big man ruled the Bulls? Bill Cartwright? Luke Longly? Let’s get real. That was M.J.’s team and he would have led it with Shaq on it as well and I don’t care about the fieldgoal percentage that Shaq attained from 2 feet away from the rim! I never said that Jordan led the league in fieldgoal percentages although his was much higher than Kobe’s. But when did Shaq ever get 10 scoring titles? When did he lead the league in steals three times? How many times was he MVP when M.J. was playing? When did he ever have the all around game that Michael had? When did he lead a team to 6 titles? When was his name ever mentioned above M.J.’s as the greatest player in the game especially when he played at the same time as Michael Jordan? Why does Shaq himself refer to M.J. as the greatest player ever to play in the NBA instead of giving himself that title? I’m sorry, but you’re the one who doesn’t have an argument here! Phil Jackson made Shaq who he was because Shaq didn’t win anything until he had a coach who layed the rules down before him and told him that it was either that or hit the road. It was a brilliant mind who knew how to use Shaq’s ablilties that made him what he became. It wasn’t until then that Shaq developed. After that, Shaq became the finals MVP, not Kobe. Shaq ran that team, not Kobe And they shared the same brilliant coach. There were a lot more times where either Shaq pulled off the heroics or the bench did to win games for the Lakers than the contributions Kobe brought to the team. Yes, he had moments of brilliance as he always has but they were spiratic and inconsistant as they’ve always been. Get some films and watch them or something. This is absurd. I’m not even going to bother to argue this anymore because you’re a person who denies black and white which makes a debate useless. Good luck!

  42. Rick Says:

    I have to say something about evolution. If you’re a person who believes that man evolved from ape I think it’s safe to say that it didn’t happen over night! That’s just like trying to say that the sophistication of the NBA and the level of athleticism has changed dramatically since M.J. left the league. He only left ten years ago for crying out loud! How much evolving do you think has taken place? Do players now have three legs or has there been some scientific breakthrough recently that I don’t know about? You have to keep in mind that M.J.’s career and Kobe’s career did some overlaping and if the League was so much less complicated than it is now, and the players were so much more primative, you would have seen miraculous accomplishments from the “evolved Kobe” but the reality is, you didn’t! And the reality is that the game has regressed since then if anything. All you have today with the exception of a few players in the league are Harlem Globetrotter like showman who lack real fundamentals and individualists who have no idea how to play team defense. The Celtics this year are an exception and so were the Pistons a few years back but these are teams that pop up out of the woodwork and then they’re gone the following year. In Jordan’s era, you had good solid teams that were consistant like the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons of the 80’s and like the Knicks, Sonics and Jazz who were always a threat in the 90’s. Who do you have today that can win a back to back championship or be a top team year after year? The Spurs have been the best team since M.J.’s retirement from the Bulls and they haven’t even accomplished that. So I have to disagree that the league is tougher and more complicated now. All they did was make scoring easier so we can be decieved into thinking that we have offensive players as great as M.J.! It’s a smart ploy to keep the public interested of the game after M.J.’s retirement but I don’t buy it! Not only do these players today who are being matched with M.J. STILL fall way short of his accomplishments in scoring but he was superior in every other category as well. Everyone is so eager to replace a legend because they feel lost when they retire and it really is an empty feeling not to be able to watch them perform anymore but everyone gets old that day happens to the best of us! People should just appreciate who they were and allow the new players establish their own name for themselves. The public and media did the same thing when Muhammad Ali retired and tried to replace him with Larry Holmes. They called Holmes a “poor man’s Ali” along with a lot of other unnecessary critisism that Holmes didn’t deserve. He was a great fighter who held his title for 7 1/2 years and almost tied Marciano’s 49-0 record before he lost once and yet they still said “yeah, but he’s no Ali”. That poor guy just came out at the wrong time following the career of a super legend and he never got the credit he deserved because of it. The same thing is happening to Kobe here. Why don’t people just appreciate who he is and quit comparing him to Michael Jordan? Let Jordan enjoy his legacy and Bryant enjoy his career!!!

  43. Steve Says:

    Hi Brandon, I just have a couple of more points to make. I guess I just can’t help myself! At the beginning of this blog you stated “why listen to the players” because they have ultra-egos and won’t admit to being inferior so why not listen to their common coaches instead? Well, HAVE you really listen to them? To the best of recollection, Tex Winter pretty much equalized both players. He said that Kobe was basically known for his outside shooting over M.J. but that he didn’t think that it was superior to Micheal’s best in that department. He also evened their skills. So his analogy basically cancels itself out. He’s a non-factor in this debate now. We have no winner there. Phil’s assessment was that Kobe may have better outside shooting skills but that M.J. had an interior game that was unparalleled. Phil also went on to say that Michael was able to channel his offensive skills for particular moments whereas Kobe went on scoring tares out of nowhere and for no reason but we all know after looking at the record books that Michael was able to do both. There were two other MAJOR factors that Phil brought up concerning M.J.’s game over Kobe’s. One was his “billion dollar hands” which were irreplacable in a number of situations and the fact that there was a major difference in overall scoring percentages in Michael’s favor. Phil DID say that Kobe had superior skills but he was apprehensive about it and said it reluctantly as if it really didn’t make a difference and was a nonfactor. Otherwise, he would have touched on it more. He was also ambiguous about what skills those actually were while he was very decisive about what M.J. had that Kobe didn’t. In an overall analogy of both coaches, I seem to GET that M.J. got the final vote. Were YOU listening? That’s the real question. My other point is that whereas it has taken YEARS for Kobe to develope his game but Michael stormed through the league right from the start, no, M.J. would not have been playing second fiddle to Shaq. No coach in his right mind would have appointed the greatest basketball player who ever played the game in a second man position to anyone Who wasa a “big man” or not and that title was well established right from the start of M.J.’s career! He probably would have been even greater than he was if he had that obsticle in his way considering his drive, his competativeness and his ambition. He would have pushed Shaq right out of his way and proved why he should be the team leader. You said that Shaq was what he was and that no perimeter player would have taken his number one spot. That’s funny because much more than just a perimeter player, M.J. was an INTERIOR player as well. As a matter of fact, that was his strength. As I said before, you’re the one who doesn’t have an argument here!

  44. Steve Says:

    Also, I have to bring up a couple of valid points concerning the Shaq/Kobe vs. M.J./Scottie debate. The mere fact that Shaq was so much more dominant than Scottie proves why M.J. was so much better than Kobe. You make it sound as if it was a detriment to Kobe’s game and his accomplishments that Shaq was on his team when in fact it was a huge advantage for Kobe in a couple of areas. Number one, if Kobe’s shot was flat and he wasn’t playing well he had the most dominant center in the game to lean on. Michael didn’t have that advantage. Scottie was a great player but couldn’t carry a team on his shoulders the way Shaq could. And secondly, since Scottie wasn’t the dominant player that Shaq was, he wasn’t double and triple teamed all of the time as Shaq was. It was M.J. who was doubled and trippled instead. This should have been a huge advantage for Kobe. He should have been posting up outlandish numbers! Can you imagine if M.J.had a player on his team who was double and tripple teamed and he was left open? He would have been averaging 60 points a game! You have a point about Shaq gobbling up the boards but that’s about it.

  45. Brandon Hoffman Says:

    Steve,

    For at least the 23rd time, I never said Kobe was better than MJ. Nor have I talked negatively about MJ.

    I just think your comparisons are moot.

    I would suggest going to basketball-reference.com and comparing Kobe’s last three seasons to MJ’s at the same age.

    Cheers,

    Brandon

  46. Steve Says:

    I already did that. The all around statistical comparisons are all in M.J.’s favor and where scoring might comparable, steals, blocked shots, and assists belong to M.J. and it’s much more difficult to sustain those scoring averages when you’re playing an equally superb all around game! Your efforts are distributed rather than concentrated on one point. Big difference! Kobe is just as good in rebounding at this age, that’s about it! As for personal accomplishments, M.J.’s far surpass Kobe’s such as scoring titles, slam dunk contests, league MVP’s, defensive player of the year, finals MVP’s, post season scoring records, team leader accomplishments and lets not forget or underestimate M.J.’s ability to take the entire league to a whole new level! Has Kobe done that? I think not! He’s still trying to get to M.J.’s level which is supposed to be “old school” and primative! This is not to mention M.J. leading his team to 3 championships by the age of 29 which is something Kobe hasn’t done ONCE in 11 years!!! And yes, you HAVE spoken negatively about M.J. on your other blog when you were trying to down grade him for his accomplishments during the 1996 NBA finals when the Bulls played the Sonics. Maybe you should read what you wrote again. Maybe you forgot! What you can’t ignore although your argument today is that the league is supposedly more evolved and technical, the players are proclaimed to be quicker, stronger and more athletic is what’s really pertinent here. Is it that or the argument in M.J.’s favor where teams were much better than they are today, the championship mentality was much more widespread among the league instead of players trying to make names for themselves, players were a lot more fundamentally sound, defenses were based on a team concept rather than individualism, players performed first and then they were paid last as opposed to the opposite today and the league rules favored defenses rather than offenses. With all of that considered, M.J. was STILL much better than Kobe and achieved a significant amount more than Kobe and yes, by the same age. Your entire argument is “MOOT”. Kobe is not “like Mike” and will never be even close, PERIOD!!! Cheers to you too!

  47. Steve Says:

    I made a mistake, M.J. retired at 32 for the first time so he had only led his team to one championship by the age of 29 but that’s one more than Kobe has and he was also finals MVP that year, league MVP and got another scoring title as well. Kobe hasn’t come close to accomplishing all of that in one year. Also, M.J. had a higher PPG for that season by over two points than what Kobe had this year! I believe Michael was Kobe’s exact age that he is now! I really don’t know what point you’re trying to make here!

  48. Steve Says:

    And Brandon… for the 24th time, my argument isn’t to prove that Michael is “Better” than Kobe because that would be really absurd! Everyone already knows the answer to that question except for you and maybe derelics like Mark Jackson, ect.! My argument is that Kobe is nowhere near Micheal in or out of his prime. That’s the argument you’re trying to make and every stat, Nba record, critic, true NBA fans, coaches of all generations, players from all eras, etc. who truly know the game will disagree with you! That includes the two coaches at the beginning of this blog that YOU used as an example but chose to ignore their points! Let’s DO use comparisons at the same age. At 23, did Kobe score over 2,300 points for the season or make rookie of the year? I think not. Did Kobe at the age of 25 break NBA records by averaging 37.1 points for the season and being the only guard to break the 3,000 point mark? I don’t think so. Talk about “moot”!!! I mean, I can go on and on. The age thing is a really stupid discussion. The overall accomplishments are really what we should be talking about here but then again, I can see why you wouldn’t want to go there! I can see why you would be afraid to compare any of Kobe’s accomplishments to M.J.’s except for maybe a season or two. And again, for the 24th time, don’t use Shaq as an excuse. It was because of him that Kobe has ANY championship rings at all. It was because of him being double and tripple teamed that Kobe was left wide open and had any chance what so ever to look like a hero of any sort in the post season and it was because of him that Kobe was able to be transparent the MANY situations when he wasn’t able to perform. Shaq picked up the slack! Point blank and now that Shaq is gone, we get to see who the REAl Kobe is. A guy with great skills and potential who is inconsistant, can’t elevate his game when it counts, doesn’t have the leadership abilities to lead his team to win the big one and is an overrated player that has been built up so much by the media throughout his career that he’s been nothing but a huge disappointment! Those are the facts. Deal with it!!! That is what reality has to offer. Either you can be a part of it or you can continue to live in a dream world. Your choice!

  49. TJ Says:

    While a fan of both players, there was something definitely different about Jordan. Looking at this topic completely objectively, I personally cannot see how any one could make a case for Bryant as superior. As great a player as he is, Jordan is still heads and shoulders better. Remember the finals against Portland and all the hype Drexler was getting about maybe being even better than MJ. Drexler was made to look a fool out there, and he was no slouch of a player. I feel absolutely certain Kobe would encounter the same type of scenario if the 2 were to have met in their primes. As of now, the only thing I might say Bryant is better at is MAYBE the 3 point shot.

  50. Steve Says:

    Finally, someone with some common sense! I do have an argument about the 3 point shot though. #1. When Kobe takes 1,500 more 3 point shots than M.J. did which is supposed to give him more practice and make him better but he’s only 1% higher than M.J. in an overall career percentage, what does that say? #2. As I said before, when did Kobe’s 3 point shooting ever win him championships or scoring titles? #3. Look at M.J.’s 3 point percentage in the 1991 and 1996 seasons! Just about 38% from behind the arc when Kobe is shooting a 34% for his career. That proves that when Michael wanted to shut his critics up, he could do it very easily! #4. Has anyone ever asked themselves why M.J. really didn’t focus on 3’s as a major part of his game? Smart, would be the word I’d use when early on, he had John Paxson who if you left him alone for a split second, the long range shot was going down! He had Craig Hodges who won 3 straight 3 point shoot outs coming off the bench and he had B.J. Armstrong who was also very efficient from 3 point range and was a part of the second three-peat as well as the first. Then they acquired Steve Kerr who managed to have the highest 3 point percentage in a single season in NBA history! Now why would M.J. focus on the 3 point shot with everything considered unless he was a vertual idiot??? I rest my case!

  51. TJ Says:

    I think another major reason why Jordan didn’t make the 3-Ball such a major part of his game, was that he was the best post player in basketball after Hakeem. All the Bull’s offense ran through him in the triple post. MJ made a living for himself and helped others find new lines of work on the block. Magic used to post up alot too…but to draw doubles and create easy shots for teammates. Jordan took you down their for shyts and giggles. he was a monster from 16 feet and in because he had the fade,could drive, and create shots for people. I love Bryant…(my favorite player in the NBA) right now. But i am not soo foolish as to think he is even in the same class with Jordan. He only gets these types of props because he emulates Jordan in so many ways……both on the court and off. Lets face it….Kobe’s personality has been drastically affected by Jordan.

  52. Steve Says:

    I totally agree with M.J.’s post play. He was the best non-center in that category in NBA history and if you considered his position and height, THE BEST! I also agree that Kobe is the most skilled and the best player in today’s game. His moves are incredible at times and I can’t help but to marvel at the kinds of shots he can make from long range with guys right up in his face! My problem with him has always been his inconsistant play, his inability to really carry a team to a championship and his basketball I.Q. Those are areas where M.J. really stood out above and beyond everyone else besides his overall skills, atheticism and physical abilities. The reason why Kobe resembles Michael so much is because Michael has really taken a vested interest in mentoring Kobe since the beginning of his career. They talk all of the time on the phone and Kobe always asks M.J. for advise. Whether he follows it or not is another story! The other reason is because even though Magic was Kobe’s idol growing up, he still admits that he has emulated and learned more from Michael’s game than anyone else’s in history!

  53. Jaylin Klein Says:

    miley u rock & d song just ike u os also cool

  54. Jessie Roy Says:

    yes, miley, becauae all moms are ugly and huge and have lost their figures. we all hate our lives, too. that’s right.

  55. satrapes Says:

    Hey it has been a while, Kobe got his championship but what the hell i would like to add that Kobe is inconsistent because he doesn’t love the game like Michael does and because he is plain stupid. Michael knew what he had to do. His basketball IQ told him to go to the basket (either posting or driving) which is consistent and smart. Kobe even after all these seasons hasn’t figured this out. He is trying to prove what we all know that when you shoot from 20 feet or more it is more likely that you are going to miss than taking layups. That means low IQ and refusal to abide to the laws of the game.

  56. AK Balla Says:

    Safrapes…are you kidding me??? First off how do you say Bryant is inconsistent? Show me another 2 guard in the league that has done what he has over the last 10 years.You won’t find 1 and you know it!!! Hell, Jordan is the only guy we can even put in the same sentence w/Bryant for that position in NBA history for that matter. Year in year out…you can book him for 30pts,5rebs, and 5 dimes. His overall stats are reduced because he came in so young. Imagine what they would be sans the first 3 years when he was learning the pro game, and was still immature and cocky.

    As for he doesn’t love the game…..I am not sure there is another player alive right now that loves it more than him. His work ethic is the topic of conversation with all his teammates, both in LA and the Olympics.To a man, they all say playing with him and watching his preperation made them better players. The guy is THE MAN among Men!! If a guy doesn’t love his job, he doesn’t work hard at it either. Nobody has ever made a case for Bryant not playing hard. he may have played selfish at times in his career, but his effort was never in question!!! Even the most staunch Kobe hater will admit he at least has a great passion for the sport if nothing else.

    Poor IQ…another goof on your part. He is one of the smartest if not the smartest in the league hands down. D-Wade recently made the comment about him saying the same thing. Jordan shot just as many fade a way jumpers and forced the action when it wasn’t there as Bryant does. Bryants turnovers and mistakes are due mostly to his incredible confidence and a little bit of poor decision making at times.

    Read PJ’s book The Last Season….Bryant is lauded by Jackson for his ability to make players better when he wants to. Phil would be the first to tell you that Kobe is a student of the game and one of it’s most knowledgable players. The guy is a 13 year vet and still watches more game footage than most rookies to see what the opponent is going to bring on a given night.

    I wouldn’t have a problem with your not liking Bryant…I am not the biggest LeBron fan, but I will admit he is a tremendous player……but if you are to be critical of Kobe’s game…come with something TANGIBLE!!! Not just a bunch of off the wall bullshit that any astute fan knows is not even remotely true.

    You are obviously 1 of the fans that used to have your entire argument tied to “he can’t win w/out Shaq”. Now he has done it, and you have to look for something new to blast him with. I wonder what it would take from Bryant to earn your respect and the others like you. I have a feeling it wouldn’t be anything…no matter what you people would find some issue to hold over his head.

    As for the Jordan/Bryant debate…I still side with Jordan, but the margin is getting closer and when Kobe is done he may be the equal to Jordan or theres a remote possibility even better.

  57. satrapes Says:

    It is true that there haven’t been many SG but this doesn’t mean that he can be comparable to MJ. Comparable means he might win sometime and thus far he gets No.2 no questions asked.
    As for the consistency part. If he wants to be compared to the best his shooting % of 46 is dwarfed by MJs 50 and it is a huge difference.
    Also the fact that you say he loves the game so much and hasn’t improved a bit on his assist and rebounding numbers voids your argument. If he works so hard and he loves so much the game, why hasn’t he gone to a 35 6 and 6.
    It is not my fault he spent his peak years trying to outscore Shaq. He should have had by now an awe inspiring season of 30+ 8 and 8 if he would like to be mentioned in the same sentence with MJ with a number other than 2.
    Also to counter that argument before he got Pau Gasol for 10 cents on the dollar and he was the man why didn’t this work pay off on rebounds and assists?
    As for the overall stats it could be argued that Jordans time with the wizards do the same for his career numbers.
    As for his IQ i don’t know what D-Wade said i know that his ego is much larger than his brain making it irrelevant if he is smart or not. If he has the tools he should work them all the time.
    Also to back this up 2 things. One the fact that he didn’t go to college and 2 the fact that he couldn’t find a way to coexist with Shaq one of the most tremendous talents of the game(2 fine examples of his ego going over his brain)
    Another difference is that MJ set up in the low block for his fadeaways not from 20 feet like KB sometimes does. Another evidence of his stupidity. After 11 years you still haven’t learnt that 20 feet fadeaways are bad.
    Plus overly confident?? You know who is overly confident time and time again? An idiot that’s who( not to say that he is an idiot just to exaggerate)
    And as for the i am a fan who said he wouldn’t win without Shaq i wasn’t. Because i can’t predict this thing but what i know is without Shaq he never gets the three rings. As for the future no one knows but comparing from their careers at the same age i say that it is different to win 6 championships as head honcho than winning 3 as a sidekick and how many more he wins alone.

  58. AK Balla Says:

    Satrapes…your quote here “Comparable means he might win sometime and thus far he gets No.2 no questions asked.” I ask you this…is 6 trips to the finals and 4 rings not considered winning sometimes? I know guys named Barkley,Malone,Dr.J,Ewing,Stockton,and Olajuwon that don’t have those numbers..COMBINED!!!!!!

    I never made a case for Bryant being number 1 at this position or as the all time best player regardless of position. I just said the margin is getting closer. Remember…Jordan didn’t win his first until he was 30. Bryant is 30 and has 4 already. Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM!!

  59. AK Balla Says:

    Satrapes your quote again “As for the consistency part. If he wants to be compared to the best his shooting % of 46 is dwarfed by MJs 50 and it is a huge difference.”

    Is consistency defined by shooting percentages alone? You have a valid point that Jordan made a higher % of his FGA’s obviously, but consistency is defined by having the same impact on the game on a REGULAR BASIS. I would say both players are extremely consistent.

    To put it this way…when Bryant has a stat line of say for example..36pts, 5 rebs, and 7 assists…we say to ourselves Kobe had a good game. We are in disbelief when he has a game of say 11pts,2rebs, and 0 assists because that is a once or twice a season type game for him. Get my point about consistency here.

    Odom and Bynum are examples of players with consistency issues. You may get 25 and 14 one night and not see those numbers again for aweek or 2. You can bet Bryant will give you 25-30,5 and 5 or more EVERY NIGHT. That is consistent in my book and probably most others as well.

  60. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”Also the fact that you say he loves the game so much and hasn’t improved a bit on his assist and rebounding numbers voids your argument. If he works so hard and he loves so much the game, why hasn’t he gone to a 35 6 and 6.”

    Did he not just have a season like that a few years back when he had the 81pt game??? Your logic is like me asking you why if MJ loved the game soooooo much why he never averaged a triple double for a season like Oscar Robertson did. Love for the game doesn’t mean you just keep increasing your numbers every year. For example are you trying to tell me KG and Duncan don’t love the game? They never had seasons even close to 35,6,6 as you said. Bryant has though. That doesn’t mean they don’t love their sport.

    Lets assume for example you personally just love your job, are 25 years old, and plan on retiring there no matter what. How would you feel if your boss came to you and said “Satrapes….you just don’t seem to love your job anymore. Your doing a great job, but can’t you do even better next week…and the week after that also. That would show me how much you like it here.” catch my drift

  61. AK Balla Says:

    Satrapes….”It is not my fault he spent his peak years trying to outscore Shaq. He should have had by now an awe inspiring season of 30+ 8 and 8 if he would like to be mentioned in the same sentence with MJ with a number other than 2.”

    I think most people would agree first off that Kobe has been in his peek years the last 2-3 and will be for the next 4-5. He was a young player when teamed with Shaq..not in his peak at all. Shaq was the one in his prime.

    As for trying to outscore Shaq at that time…was it not Shaq who lead the team in scoring in the regular season and playoffs. Bryant was playing Robin to Shaq’s Batman at the time. The only time I remember Kobe trying to outscore Shaq was when Shaq’s broken down out of shape ass was limping into the post season and Bryant went on a 9-10 game tear where he scored at least 40 every game back in 2003 or 2004 to keep the Lakers in contention for the leagues best record and home court in the playoffs.

    Was his stats a couple years ago 35pts, 6rebs,6assts not an awe inspiring season? OMG get real dude!!! Oh…I think he might have scored something like 81pts in a game that year and busted the ass of the leagues best team that year (Dallas 67-15) for another 69….IN JUST 3 QUARTERS.

    Bryant might very well of had 85-90 that night had Phil let him stay in the game. Jordans career high was 69, and that took him playing a ton of minutes and the game went to OT vs. Cleveland. Bryant did that in just a little over 1/2 the game. NUFF SAID on that

  62. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes…”Also to counter that argument before he got Pau Gasol for 10 cents on the dollar and he was the man why didn’t this work pay off on rebounds and assists?

    Conversely then…..if Jordan was such a GOD why couldn’t he win a title before he got Pippen, Grant ,Cartwright, Phil Jackson and Rodman to name a few. Hell, MJ couldn’t even get out of the first round until those guys joined the Bulls. Was it his fault…of course not..the talent around him was weeeeek….and the same goes for Bryant.

    In order to win, you have to have players around you as well. You ask about rebounds and assists in your quote above. I tell you this…look at the team he had back then…Luke Walton,Kwame Brown,Smush Parker, Brian Grant, etc etc etc. All these guys are either bench players or not even in the league anymore. When MJ had his 30,8,8 year…he had 2 all-stars with him in Grant and Pippen. Does it look to you like Bryant any all-stars with him when he had his 35,6,6 year. Your arguments here are really lacking .

    Bryant’s main job was to score to keep the team competitive and he kept the Lakers in many games by himself most of the time. Do you really think those other guys scared anybody on defense?? The defense knew it was all Kobe and he still torched their asses. Kobe spent so much energy on the offense and still grabbed more boards than their 7′ center (Kwame) and had more assists than their starting point guard (Smush). Do your homework first brother before looking foolish.

  63. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes…”As for the overall stats it could be argued that Jordans time with the wizards do the same for his career numbers.”

    Again with the crazy ideas. In Jordans 2 years with the Wizards he was a seasoned and savy veteran still averaging 20+pts a game…and even had a fifty point game in 1 of those years. Bryants first 2 seasons in the league he was 18 and 19 years old, getting maybe 15 minutes a game. That comparison is RIDICULOUS AT BEST. Jordan was only a year removed from being the best player alive when he went to the Wiz….Bryant was a year removed from taking a pop star named Brandy to his high school prom. Are you trying to convince me or you with that silly statement.

  64. AK Balla Says:

    Satrapes…..”As for his IQ i don’t know what D-Wade said i know that his ego is much larger than his brain making it irrelevant if he is smart or not. If he has the tools he should work them all the time.”

    Do you think Bryant is the only pro athlete with a huge ego? MJ was famous for his total arrogance and his teammates actually dispised him for it also because he was so unforgiving when they made mistakes.

    A huge ego is part of what makes these guys special.

    As for the 2nd part of your statement…..I guess we have to assume Bryant only works his skills every other game or so…maybe even only 2 or 3 out of 10 games. LMFAO!!!!

  65. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”Also to back this up 2 things. One the fact that he didn’t go to college and 2 the fact that he couldn’t find a way to coexist with Shaq one of the most tremendous talents of the game(2 fine examples of his ego going over his brain)”

    First Off….I think Shaq was the 1 with the real EGO problem……running down the court and screaming at the owner up in the stands to “Pay Me” after he made a play.
    Wasn’t Buss the same owner that gave him 126M over 7 seasons to come to LA, and paired him up with Bryant and jackson to win his first 3 rings. If 126 million isn’t getting paid, then i don’t know what is.

    Moses Malone and KG never went to college. Both are headed to or already in the Hall of Fame… as is Bryant. 70 of all MLB players never go to college….LeBron never went to college. Whats your point here!!!!

    I would say he did a very good job of coexisting with Shaq….shit they won 3 straight titles together. That doesn’t happen when you are fighting.

    The year they lost to Detroit in the finals, there were problems, and BOTH were to blame…not just Bryant. If Shaq was such a great talent why did he constantly come to camp 40-50 lbs overweight. Why did he put off surgery on his foot until a month before the season when he had all summer to do it…leaving the Lakers with out their starting center for the first 20 games. Oh and why was he always missing games due to injury…was it because he wasn’t in good condition and his body couldn’t handle the stress of another 50lbs of fat.

    And heres Bryant busting his ass in the weight room, shootin’ 10000 jumpers and 500 free throws a day in the off season. I would be pissed at Shaq too if I was busting my ass trying to win and he showed up wanting to play Mr.Comedy Central to the media all the time.

    Buss and Mitch made the right call by dumping his fat ass. Look at Shaq since he left LA…..a complete circus. He only makes the papers for his funny quotes and silly rap songs on U-Tube. Bryant is the most dominat player alive and will be for a few more years.

    Imagine the lakers right now with Shaq…..and Bryant somewhere else. They’d be like Phoenix….watching come playoff time

  66. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes…..”Another difference is that MJ set up in the low block for his fadeaways not from 20 feet like KB sometimes does. Another evidence of his stupidity. After 11 years you still haven’t learnt that 20 feet fadeaways are bad.”

    You are aware that there have been major rules changes to the game since Jordan was in his heyday. Why do you think sooo many more 3pters are attempted today than 15-20 years ago. Its because the defense packs the lane and zones are even allowed today…they weren’t when MJ played.

    It is very hard to play in the post now…you see double and triple teams the minute you touch the ball. Jordan got to post up and see the floor before any defensive reaction just like Barkley and Hakeem did also. Those guys got 3-5 dribbles before a second defender even made his move to double…allowing them more time to create their shot.

    Look for example what LA did to howard in the finals…he was swarmed by 2-3 Lakers before he even got set most of the time…..consequently he struggled to get even 15pts a game. Back in MJ’s era, he would have eaten Cartwright,Wennington, and Luke Longleys lunch.

    i might add that Bryant makes about as many of those 20′ fades as me misses, and Jordan was the originator of the fade a way.

    Your point here is also way off course

  67. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”Plus overly confident?? You know who is overly confident time and time again? An idiot that’s who( not to say that he is an idiot just to exaggerate)”

    Again…show me a great athlete that isn’t overly confident. John Elway thought his arm was strong enough to throw it through a wall…as did Brett Favre. MJ,Bird, and Magic talked more shit than anyone….great athletes are great because of their confidence and skills. Confidence is what seperates the real ballers from the average ones.

    Show me 1 great athlete that didn’t have supreme confidence in his own ability, and i’ll kiss your ass at center court in Staples Arena!!!

  68. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”And as for the i am a fan who said he wouldn’t win without Shaq i wasn’t. Because i can’t predict this thing but what i know is without Shaq he never gets the three rings. As for the future no one knows but comparing from their careers at the same age i say that it is different to win 6 championships as head honcho than winning 3 as a sidekick and how many more he wins alone.

    I assumed you were on the bandwagon for “he can’t win without Shaq” because of the things you said in your very first post. You seem like a man that just dogs Bryant no matter what and without any true evidence so far. Most Bryant haters are just in tears now that he has won without Shaq…they have nothing to justify their Hater attitudes anymore and reach for the silliest things to make their case.

    Don’t think for a minute that Shaq gets those 3 rings without Bryant either…and for that matter…he doesn’t get #4 without D-Wade, and you can bet your ass on that any day of the week.

    You think Jordan gets 6 rings without Pippen, Grant, and Rodman?? No way!!!!! Look at the Bulls before those guys got there…..they couldnt win 40 games in a season let alone win a title. Go back and look at the stats…they were an 8th seed against Boston 1 year with like 38 wins. Put that same team in todays Western Conference and they are a lottery team.

    As for Jordan and the head honcho remark…..does that mean that Scottie, and Horace, and Rodman didn’t have extremely valuable roles on those title teams.Didn’t Kerr and Paxson both make critical game winning shots for some of those titles. You make it sound like Jordan won those titles all alone.

    Much like Bryant,is it Pippens fault he played with a great player and is referred to as a “side kick”.

    I wonder what your point would be had MJ had a dominant big man like say Hakeem on the Bulls.

    I have taken your last post piece by piece and presented my thoughts. As I said before….I agree 100% that Jordan is the better player between himself and Bryant…but for far different reasons than you. It may look like I tried to make a case for Bryant over Jordan in my posts…but all i was doing was showing you that your criticism of Bryant is fueled with emotion…and not anything tangible other than the 46-50% shooting comparison you made.

    Give Bryant his due……this guy has more titles than 99% of all players to ever play this game and that includes some of the games ALL TIME VERY BEST. Wilt,Dr.J and Jerry West only have 3 between them…Bryant beats that by himself. Not many guys can claim 6 trips, 4 rings, and counting. That kind of shit doesn’t happen by accident or all sorts of players would be doing it.

    Kobe Bryant…..Best player alive right now HANDS DOWN!!! Still second to Michael Jordan though. But lets wait another 5-6 years and then have this same debate. The name of the story may be different.

  69. satrapes Says:

    Listen he got 6 times to the finals and it could be argued that the 4 of them were with Shaq. The fact that amazing
    players like Barkley, Malone, Ewing and Olajuwon haven’t won that much is because there was way tougher competition
    back in the day and the fact that MJ took everything. He was the alpha male he got his first and everyone else second
    and mind you they had to fight each other.
    Also MJ had won 3 being the man with the Bulls by the time he was 30 and not 1 and his team never lost a final while
    we all saw what happened last year.
    And it could be argued that had he not retired he would have been ahead. (But that has a big if written all over it so
    not really an argument)
    Kobe being the egoist that he is will get 35 points in one game with 20 shots and in another with 35 shots because
    deep down he wants to score 35 even if that means he will shoot 40% or lower. And the reason why he shoots so bad sometimes
    is the fact that he takes so many jumpers and treys which he is not so good at.
    Imo the overall quality of his play is mirrored in the FG% because clearly he has the talents but he doesn’t put them to
    use all the time and this over time leads to a 4% difference in career average.
    It ain’t just about the assists, it is about steals and blocks and all the little things. Ask me this how many times have you seen Kobe run
    down the court to swat a shot (i’ll give you that this has improved the last years but through out his career not so great),
    and how many times have you seen him complain to the referee after getting a little contact instead of hauling
    his ass back.
    As for the season with the 81 point game. His season was about scoring not dominating. The difference between a 32.5 8 and 8 and a
    35 5.3 and 4.5 is that in the former you are the baddest mother$#@@#$ on the block on the latter you are an amazing scorer who is good
    in rebounding and assists( but not that special)never mind the fact that Jordan has 54% while Kobe has 45%. That is 9%
    difference.
    As for KG and Duncan they are different positions and a whole other story. The same goes
    for Oscar because he played in a totally different era.
    What i am trying to say is we all know MJ and Kobe are great players but compare the seasons where they both kicked it into overdrive
    and they don’t even compare. (Not that this is a valid way to compare the 2 players)
    Also i never said that MJ didn’t have an ego big as the poster on the Nike building he just made better use of it consistently. He
    found a way to channel it even when he was playing in the godforsaken bulls teams of old without Phil the Philosopher.
    The way you have it with the low block one of the best ever post players we have ever seen Olajuwon should have scored somewhere north
    of 50 points per game in a season. And also if i am not mistaken a double and triple team is much different than a zone and wait a minute i think
    it was allowed.
    Again MJ was the originator of the fade away and he put it to good use probably because he was smarter and definitely because he is better.
    Let me tell you something confidence of course is a difference maker but take this for example.
    Kobe is overly confident in his 3 pointer. Shit he keeps shooting them only to find out he is good for about one out of three which is a pretty average
    percentage. If you are the greatest basketball player at some time you have to say whoa i need to stop taking 3s. And what about the long 2s with a hand
    in his face. We know he is good but you can’t defy basketball. This is hubris to basketball
    “As for Jordan and the head honcho remark”
    Of course they had valuable roles but everybody knew who the Man was.
    And last but not least MJ once he got going he never looked back. Once he learned what it takes to win a championship he did it every year.(This is Kobe’s measuring stick right now)
    And as for you kissing my ass i don’t see that happening. You talk so much shit my ass would be offended.

    P.S.
    “Do your homework first brother before looking foolish.”
    “Jordan was only a year removed from being the best player alive when he went to the Wiz”
    How old were you then? It was 3 years and mind you a 35 5.3 and 4.5 is not a 35 6 and 6. Also not to belittle his effort just to spite you for spiting me it was 62 points not 69. And the 81 point game was against the Raptors.

  70. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”Listen he got 6 times to the finals and it could be argued that the 4 of them were with Shaq.”

    Did Jordan not make 6 finals with Pippen and 3 with Rodman…both of whom were voted to the list of 50 greatest players ever??? Obviously to you what applies to Kobe….doesn’t to MJ.

  71. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….” The fact that amazing
    players like Barkley, Malone, Ewing and Olajuwon haven’t won that much is because there was way tougher competition
    back in the day and the fact that MJ took everything. He was the alpha male he got his first and everyone else second and mind you they had to fight each other.”

    Competition level is a personal preference here. I seem to remember that over the last few years, if you don’t have 50+ wins in the West, you are in the lottery. Even 50 wins may get you a 6th seed or lower!!!! Back then, many teams made the playoffs while playing at .500 and even below, so the competition level argument is way off base. Don’t associate individual players with team greatness. Example…Barkley and Ewing are looked at as great players but their teams were never serious contenders because they were good players…but not GREAT!!

  72. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes…”Also MJ had won 3 being the man with the Bulls by the time he was 30 and not 1 and his team never lost a final while
    we all saw what happened last year.”

    Try 1 title at 29 years old!!!! Look it up!!!

    Yes, Bryant’s Lakers were beaten by a team last year with 3 potential Hall of Fame players. Bryant has how many HOF caliber players with him??? Uh—ZERO–!!

    Aren’t Pippen and Rodman both going to the Hall also. Outside of Shaq, Bryant has never had a HOF type player to run with. Your arguments are fruitless my friend

  73. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”Kobe being the egoist that he is will get 35 points in one game with 20 shots and in another with 35 shots because
    deep down he wants to score 35 even if that means he will shoot 40% or lower.”

    You need to look at the amount of FGA’s Jordan used to put up. You dog Bryant for shooting too much, yet Jordan routinely led the NBA in FGA’s almost every year and you say nothing of it.

    It is also very apparent Bryant doesn’t look to shoot nearly as much as he used to. Everyone but you see’s he has all his teammates involved…thats why they just won the title….you simply can’t load your defense against Bryant anymore because he will find open people and they will kill you now.

  74. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”And the reason why he shoots so bad sometimes
    is the fact that he takes so many jumpers and treys which he is not so good at.”

    For the shooting guard position, is Bryant’s FG% not right in line with the other SG’s in the NBA??? Of course it is!!! And remember…the other SG’s in the NBA are not the focal point of the offense…they benifit from having people create for them, while Bryant has to create for himself and his teammates. When the defense is that attracted you…45% isn’t that bad at all. All it means is 5 more made shots out of 100 to get to 50%. So if a Bryant and Joedan shoot 20 times per game for 5 games…all Jordan did was make 1 extra shot per game. A difference..YES..but not nearly what you make it out to be.

    Bryant is not an elite 3pt shooter, but compare him to the league average and he is right in line. Jordan really never had the 3pt game Bryant does…or the range either. Bryant routinely makes 30′ and more attempts throughout the season

  75. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”It ain’t just about the assists, it is about steals and blocks and all the little things. Ask me this how many times have you seen Kobe run
    down the court to swat a shot (i’ll give you that this has improved the last years but through out his career not so great),
    and how many times have you seen him complain to the referee after getting a little contact instead of hauling
    his ass back.”

    Like i said from the get go…I think Jordan is better also, but what i have shown you is your logic for your criticism of Bryant is more a personal dislike rather than objective.

    I agree Jordan has more assists….but remeber this Bryant played off of Shaq his first 7 years, when the offense wasn’t ran through him all the time. Then he had a 4 year period where he had no teammates to convert his passes. It has only been the last 2 years where he finally got some help and look what he has done…did he not lead the Lakers and the entire finals in assists on their way to a title?

    Jordan had the ball all the time and also had better players around him for a longer majority of his career. Not to take away from MJ, but he never had to play off another guy and that directly effects your stats.

    As for blocks and steals…I agree all the way with you. That is one reason why I view Jordan as better. Bryant is a VERY good defender…..Jordan was just simply even better.

    true defense isn’t about running a guy down to block his shot…these are plays people like on ESPN.

    Jordan berated referree’s just as much if not more than Bryant for “missed calls”. it’s just that Bryant haters cling to it to make him out to be a cry babay where Jordan was never scrutinized the way Kobe is.

  76. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes…”As for the season with the 81 point game. His season was about scoring not dominating. The difference between a 32.5 8 and 8 and a
    35 5.3 and 4.5 is that in the former you are the baddest mother$#@@#$ on the block on the latter you are an amazing scorer who is good
    in rebounding and assists( but not that special)never mind the fact that Jordan has 54% while Kobe has 45%. That is 9%
    difference.

    If an 81pt game isn’t dominating then we read from different dictionaries!!!!

    Don’t try to tell me Bryant hasn’t been the baddest mother ^^^^^^ on the block for some time now. Yes, MJ grabbed a few more boards and dished a few more dimes….but Kobe scored more and also once again I point out he did this on a much LESS TALENTED TEAM than Jordan had.

    The 9% is a big difference, but in Bryants defense a little……better players help you make easier plays. MJ would be the first to tell you that w/out Pippen, his stats weren’t nearly as dominant. Bryant had no “Pippen” type player with him…he was truly solo…so that makes him even more dominant!!!!!

  77. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”As for KG and Duncan they are different positions and a whole other story. The same goes
    for Oscar because he played in a totally different era.
    What i am trying to say is we all know MJ and Kobe are great players but compare the seasons where they both kicked it into overdrive
    and they don’t even compare. (Not that this is a valid way to compare the 2 players)”

    You need to go back and read your post over then read my repsonse. You are now going against exactly what you claimed in the first place. Just changing your story to your liking!!!

  78. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes….”The way you have it with the low block one of the best ever post players we have ever seen Olajuwon should have scored somewhere north
    of 50 points per game in a season.”

    How did you come to this conclusion???? Look at the original posts again…you are losing your focus on the issue before you even write about it!!!!!

  79. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes…”“As for Jordan and the head honcho remark”
    Of course they had valuable roles but everybody knew who the Man was.
    And last but not least MJ once he got going he never looked back. Once he learned what it takes to win a championship he did it every year.(This is Kobe’s measuring stick right now)
    And as for you kissing my ass i don’t see that happening. You talk so much shit my ass would be offended.”

    I guess you somehow believe everyone doesn’t know who the man is now on the Lakers. It must be Odom or Bynum…surely not Bryant!!! LOL

    Before passing judgement here…lets see what Kobe does for an encore next year. He just learned how to win it also being in the Alpha Male role. Time will tell!!

    As for the shit talking you accuse me all I can say is the truth hurts. At every one of your remarks, I gave you factual points to refute them.If you go back and read your posts….they are all laced with “Bryant is stupid, ego, etc etc etc etc. These are YOUR OPINIONS….NOT….irrefutable knowledge.

    Again…like I said earlier…I agree Jordan to be superior to Bryant for now. When Kobe is finished, I may still see it that way. But Kobe has the chance to surpass Jordan and I won’t be too surprised if he does.

    You seemed to want to turn this into a hate collumn about Bryant, and not a discussion as to why you think Jordan the better player.

  80. satrapes Says:

    First of all stop writing 11 posts because i have to get 11 emails one will just do it.
    Well to say the least Pippen is a great player but he sure as hell is not O’neal.
    And of course Jordan was always better than Pippen and Rodman while Kobe can be argued if he was better than Shaq during their coexistence mind you even a fat Shaq.
    Also in MJs first years he sure as hell didn’t have any HOF players around him but he could do better than Kobe
    “Try 1 title at 29 years old!!!! Look it up!!!”
    When a guy is born in February of 1963 and he gets his 3rd championship in 1993 i think that it means that he won 3 when he was 30 years old and 3 or 4 months. Perhaps this is too difficult for you to understand and i wonder who should look up what around here.
    Dennis Rodman was not among the top 50 players and really you should double check before speaking again.
    What i am saying is that when he got to the finals he got the MVP 6 times, Kobe went to the Finals 6 times twice he lost and he got 1 MVP. Not that difficult to grasp.
    Well he might have got many FGA but judging by his career percentage they were better shots. Better basketball players choose better shots that’s why they shoot better over a whole career.
    As for the argument that he passes more now even a blind man can see it. And apparently you are the blind man everyone keeps referring to. I have one objection on how much did it take for him to figure it out that trusting your teammates is going to help the team. Trust is a two way street in basketball. And of course i forget the famous Game 7 in Phoenix (Phoenix for crying out loud – What the hell was he thinking)(But based on your course of arguments this will spiral out of control)
    What you fail to understand is that Kobe’s FG% is in line with the other SGs in the NBA not the best SG that ever played. That is good enough for 2nd best and being clearly 2nd best doesn’t mean you can compare with the best. You also fail to realise time and time again that it was a genious decision of MJ not to take 3s. The guy had the green light to do whatever he wanted shoot 3s shoot even from the half court no one would say anything to him and it is not like he couldn’t shoot 34% for his career yet he chose to play smarter. (And please don’t resort to the the line was shorter argument i know it was)
    Of course true defense isn’t about swatting shots on the break but it shows determination for D it shows character which of course adds to his greatness.
    Also you make the point that Jordan had Pippen in 88-89 whereas to be exact he had Pippen and Grant in their second years with not very spectacular numbers.(But i have to concede that they still were a better supporting cast than Odom and Parker).
    Also again you are trying to make something out of nothing and have me say that KB wasn’t the man in the last championship i have eyes man. But you can’t deny that Shaq was probably was going to get his rings with or without Kobe (even though you seem to be leaning automatically to the second) and of course he played second fiddle to O’neal therefore meaning that he wasn’t the man back in the day. The way i see it Kobe won 3 rings as a pup and one as a man. MJ won 6 rings as a man.
    The reason for me not talking about KG and Duncan is because you judge the PF and C with other criterions and i wouldn’t want to go there. I am not changing a story to my liking it is just that this story is getting boring and i wouldn’t like to extend it. But lets just say you don’t expect a 30 8 and 8 from KG.
    The reason i came to this conclusion is this, Olajuwon was an excellent post player routinely victimizing even the better bigs of his generation. If it was so easy to score on the post as you said he should have had something amazing for PPG that’s why. i know i exaggerrate a bit just for fun.
    “At every one of your remarks, I gave you factual points to refute them.”
    Oh yeah have fun with Dennis Rodman too he sure as hell will be pleased when he learns that he got in the 50 top players of the NBA and it is a shame it is only a wiki link away to check. Not that he wasn’t a great player it is just that you routinely make mistakes.

    “Before passing judgement here…lets see what Kobe does for an encore next year. He just learned how to win it also being in the Alpha Male role. Time will tell!!”
    Is there an echo here?

  81. satrapes Says:

    Ahh and i almost forgot. For the record segmenting my post and replying dumbassedly to everything i say doesn’t mean you refuted with factual points it rather implies that you are trying to project your views onto mines.

  82. satrapes Says:

    And finally to cap this off
    Jordan when he was on the bad Bulls teams, put better numbers than Kobe on the bad Lakers teams.
    The bad Lakers teams weren’t 4 years they were actually 2 and a half years. A year with Caron Butler, Lamar Odom and a decent Chucky Atkins isn’t a bad team.
    Also Jordan was head and shoulders above his contemporaries in all positions whilst the same can’t be said about Kobe unless you want to compare him with the other SG, and this can be further evidenced from his regular season MVP trophies.
    And now to make a school yard argument for you to understand. Jordan in his last years was clearly a far more valuable player than a skinny O’neal. Fat O’neal when he was in the same team with Kobe, was clearly a more valuable player. So Jordan pwns Bryant.
    Also as for the analogy about me working in a firm which i forgot to address. I am not a professional athlete (or you could say since the advent of television an entertainer) making 30 million dollars per year(oops now you know i am not Lebron) having millions of fans idolizing me so i do not have the same pressure to push my own boundaries to satisfy the public(because this is what stars do, and of those stars others just shine brighter).
    Also about the skills that he puts to use every other game or so. He puts them to use almost every game the difference being he brings them to a great level and sometimes to a good level. The analogy of great to good in Michaels career was better than Kobe’s.
    Also dating as far back as 1980 besides the Pistons teams in order to win a championship you need a dominant PF or C. The Bulls with the greatest player ever managed to win having as their stars the SG and SF something that speaks volumes of their grandieur because they carved a niche in basketball history for themselves.
    Plus your whole line of thought is to keep making excuses for the guy and somehow trying to say that i argued his place among the other SGs of the league which i didn’t. I just said that he is No. 2 and that it is sacreligious to compare him to the greatest.

  83. Steve Says:

    Micheal Jordan is the best player in NBA history. Kobe bryant is the second best 2 guard in NBA history. Are there any questions? Just ask yourself which of the two didn’t have any weaknesses to his game. I think the answer is quite clear. I need to comment on a few redundant statments that I’ve been hearing over the past several emails…

    #1. There are other equally important aspects of the game other than offense and scoring. All I’ve been hearing about is points, rebounds and assists when these categories really aren’t what makes these two players stand out amongst the greatest who ever played. To prove my point, just check out the stats that LeBron is putting up and what Oscar Robertson put up throughout his career. Those two guys are at the top of the game when it comes to producing in those 3 categories. The reason why we’re discussing M.J. and Kobe rather than those players is because of the all around game that these guys have as well. With that being said, we should be talking about defense and the transitional game and not leave those valid points out of the equasion. M.J. ruled both of those categories and was just as dominant there as he was on offense. That’s what made him the greatest player ever. He never took a night off and he never slacked anywhere on the court. Compare the numbers of steals and blocked shots over M.J.’s career to what Kobe has produced and it’s not even close. M.J. was by far the best all around player. Even when you take Kobe’s number one attribute which is scoring and compare it to M.J.’s career accomplishments, he doesn’t measure up there either. This is not to mention that M.J. was a better rebounder and put up more assists as well. There’s no doubt that Kobe is a great player but he just doesn’t measure up to M.J. and when people say that he is as good or even better than M.J. just blows my mind! They need to go back and check the stats.

    #2. I’m really tired of hearing about Scottie Pippen. When he joined the league he was vitually an unknown. Sure, he has some athletic ability but he wasn’t a good shooter at all (His only shot was a bank shot off the glass) and he was very inconsistant in his all around play. Michael knew that in order to win championships that he would have to have a second man and with Scotties overall potential, Michael invested in him. He spent a great deal of time with Pippen in practice teaching him little inside moves, he taught him how to play aggressive defense and he even coached him when he went to the slam dunk competition. Michael Jordan made Scottie Pippen, not the other way around. He took an average player with a little bit better than average athelicism and made a star out of him. You put Scottie Pippen on an average NBA team and without M.J. coaching him and you probably never would have heard much about Scottie Pippen at all. That’s about as plain and simple as I can make it and that situation was no where near in comparison to the situation that Kobe had with Shaq. Kobe didn’t make Shaq. In fact Kobe has never invested that kind of time into a teammate period. Kobe got to play with one of the most dominant centers in NBA history AND in his prime. That’s not even in the same ballpark as what Jordan had to deal with. I’m tired of that argument being brought up. It’s ridiculous.

    #3. The other thing I’m tired of hearing is how the defenses are tougher today by these Kobe fans. I think they need to put the crack pipe down! Do they forget that two of the greatest defensive teams ever (The late 80’s Pistons and the early 90’s Knicks) played in M.J.’s era? Do they forget about how handchecking and very rough physical play was tollerated by the league at that time? M.J. still tore the league apart even though they were punishing him nightly! Neither Kobe or LeBron has ever had to face the kind of physical abuse or the calliber of teams that Air Jordan did. The differences in the league rules today would be equivelant to the boxing commission telling Muhammad Ali that he can still dance around the ring and Joe frazier that he can still bob and weave but they’re not allowed to punch each other! That’s exactly what they did to the game of basketball. They took the punch out of the fight so what you have now is a mere image of what the sport used to be. I guarantee you that if Kobe and LeBron had to deal with teams that elbowed you, tripped you, kneed you, pulled on your jersey, ganged up on you, hard fouled you, etc. as a part of their strategy to stop you, their numbers would be very different! M.J. was STILL unstoppable. Can you imagine what numbers he’d be putting up in a league that couldn’t touch him?

    And one last point I have to make is that Kobe just led his team to a championship for the first time in his career. How long has he been in the league? He only has to do it 5 more times to catch M.J.! He was a second man on the 3 other championship teams that he was a part of where Shaq was making all of the accomplishments and getting the awards. Kobe has even a longer way to go to catch Air Jordan in team accomplishments than he has in individual accomplishments. It may be said and done at the conclusion of Kobe’s career that he has matched M.J. in several categories and even surpassed him but M.J. didn’t join the league at 17, he missed three years as a young man/prime (1986, 1994 & 1995) and then he retired at 35 when he could have kept playing the next few years rather than coming back as a Wizard as an old man and lowering his career stats! If you added all of those years that he could have played to his overall resume, he would have put up numbers that probably never would have been touched!

  84. AK Balla Says:

    satrapes…after reading your post, I saw so much that I wanted to comment on…but will settle for 2 issues only right now.

    1st…PIPPEN. I could not disagree more strenuously. Yes, coming in to the NBA he was an unknown. Yes, it took him a couple years to find his way. After that though, a very valid case can be made for him being the second best player in the league only behind Jordan.Pipp could do it all. The only reason he wasn’t a 25PPG scorer was because he was the set up man for MJ and others. I am not saying he WAS the next best (Hakeem IMO) but an argument can be made on his behalf. Pippen was a more than adequate scorer, great rebounder for a SF, a strong clutch player, high IQ,the man that ran the Bulls offense, and the best defender in the league…yes even over Jordan. He had a complete all around game. Even when Jordan was there, it was Pippen who often called the plays and even would over-ride Phil at times due to his keen sense of how the game was going and what the Bulls needed. He was a leader on and off the floor…even more than Jordan, who many dispised behind closed doors for his arrogance and biting criticism. Scottie directed the Bulls defense and offense…NOT MJ!!! Phil Jackson is on record as saying so also. Phil stated the Bulls success to be greatly due to Pippens ability to take away one half of the court thus clogging up the other teams options and creating poor spacing, and also Pipp’s ability to hound the opposing PG all the way up the court and take off 8-10 seconds before even getting into their offensive sets. Pippen always drew the other teams best player. Pippen was the reason Magic Johnson was nutralized in the Bulls first championship. He put the cuffs on Drexler when many were saying Clyde was as good as MJ. He dominated Gary Payton also…Shawn Kemp was the only reason that series wasn’t a sweep or 5 games at most. He stiffled the Jazz because he pushed Stockton out so far and making it hard to get the ball to Malone He could guard any player except the really big PF’s and C’s. He could grab a rebound…and be at the other teams rim faster than anyone with his long strides and athleticism. He did what great players do…made the game easier for those less talented

    But this is the real kicker…and something even you cannot deny………..

    The year after Jordan retired, he took a Bulls team by himself, to within one EXTREMELY SHITTY CALL VS THE KNICKS, of being back in the finals. We all know it was a bunk call that cost them the series vs NY. Before the season, I remember people wondering if the Bulls would even make an 8th seed w/out MJ. Pipp had them less than 5 seconds from another trip to the finals

    That Bulls team had no MJ and still could have easily won a title. I never saw MJ lead the Bulls that far without Pippen although he wasn’t given the chance either. Pipp was hands down the leagues MVP that year and got robbed. At least Hakeem had Drexler. Scottie had guys like Randy Brown…BJ Armstrong…Bill Wennington…and Pete ??? (dude that replaced MJ). Tony K was the only other decent player and he was no all-star at all. If not for MJ and Pipp…Kucoc would have been a bumb…just like we saw once he went to the Bucks. That team had shit for talent and Pipp almost got them all the way….HUGE ACCOMPLISHMENT IN MY BOOK!!!!

    Even later in his career, Phil desperately wanted him in LA, and he led a totally mismatched Portland team to within a decent 4th quarter of beating the Lakers and playing for another title.

    Houston acquired him because they thought he was the difference maker. Unfortunately they also had Barkley’s lazy ass who wouldn’t stop with the Big Mac’s or play a lick of defense.

    simply put Pippen was a STUD and a Champion

    2nd….your take on Bryant winning 3 title’s as a “side kick” is ridiculous. Robert Horry was a side kick…brian Shaw a side kick…Derek Fisher a side kick. Ron Harper…. Rick Fox a side kick. Kobe was a VITAL PART. He routinely put up huge numbers and was a complete nightmare for the Spurs. Kobe and Shaq complemented one another…with out Kobe…the defense would have sagged even more on Shaq and forced the previously listed players to beat them. I love them all, but not one of them put fear into the other team. I am sure the Spurs would have taken their chances against LA with Harper instead of Bryant…those guys are just journeyman types carving out career’s, many playing with as many as 4-5 teams in their career. With out Shaq…Kobe doesn’t get those free alleys to the rim and gets doubled much more often. They needed one another or no rings for either one. You think Shaq was gonna win one in Miami w/out Wade!!! LMFAO

    By your logic, Magic must have been a “side kick” to Kareem or vice versa depending on how you view it. Wilt a “side kick” to West and Baylor…..McHale a “side kick” to Bird. Dr.J a “side kick” to Moses Malone…..Duncan a side kick to Robinson….see what I mean. Give credit where it is due…none of these guys were side kicks as you say. These were some of the very best players ever and made the top 50 list. You look ignorant for even coining the term side kick and applying it to one of the best players the world has ever seen in Bryant.

    A side kick is a role player not a superstar!!! Bryant is a super star

    Still, MJ was a better player to me, but like I said before…the gap is closing…Kobe just isn’t the media darling MJ was and so many have bought into it. It’ isn’t Bryants fault he has the same size,style,athleticism,or the comparison’s to Jordan. It’s the image created by the media.

  85. satrapes Says:

    Well a role player is a role player and a sidekick is a sidekick. Robin is Batman’s sidekick Comissioner Gordon is a role player. If you don’t like the term sidekick how is playing second fiddle does that suit you better. Pippen was Jordan’s sidekick he was a very good sidekick good enough to be in the top 50. When Kareem played with Magic he was his sidekick
    because you expect the top dog to take the responsibility. When the Lakers would lose it would be Magic’s fault. With the Celtics it was Bird the guy on the electric pressure chair not McHale. When the Bulls would lose they would look to Jordan not Scottie. When the game is on the line it is like that dreadful cliche when the going gets tough the tough get going. Obviously basketball is a team sport no one can win anything on his own. The gap has closed a little bit even since Kobe won a championship being the best player on his team. But a small fraction won’t make the cut at least yet. For the time being they are not even comparable.

  86. H2theOH Says:

    a title does not make a person close the gap in greatness, sorry. When the lakers lost vs. the pistons a few years back, it was kobe wanting to be the man that cost them that title, even though the pistons had no answer for shaq, kobe, though he was being shut down by tayshawn prince, couldn’t bare to let shaq win another finals mvp. last year when the lakers lost in beantown, I recall kobe saying after the san antonio series that he could turn it on whenever he wanted to…. yet he complained that boston threw the kitchen sink at him. If you want to talk numbers, kobe’s best year still does not compare to michaels best year, where he won defensive player of the year, a scoring title, the the steals title, mvp of the all star game, and mvp of the league, all in in 1987. Thats all in one season folks. you want to talk about the gap closing?

    Michael Kobe
    Finals: 6 4
    Finals mvp: 6 1
    league mvp: 5 1
    Scoring titles: 10 2

    And I can go on and on. To say that the gap is closing is ludicrous. Kobe is a special talent, but to compare him to mj is ridiculous. In kobe’s best year, the year he averaged 35.4 a game, he didn’t garner another accolade beside his scoring title. the year Michael averaged 37.1, again, he got the scoring title, steals title, regular season mvp, all star mvp, and the defensive player of the year award (some people forget he was third in the league in blocks that year, besides leading in steals). This was all the while torching the league on a nightly basis, during a time in the nba where a foul was really a foul, not what today would be called a flagrant one or two. To compare these two is just asinine. Titles alone do not make a player great, because if that was the case, players like robert horry and steve kerr would be in the conversation as some of the greatest of all time, and they aren’t.

  87. H2theOH Says:

    Oh, and I’d like to add to that, for people who talk about kobe’s “prolific” scoring. He has torched insignificant teams during the regular season for his highest totals, and thats fine and dandy, but for such a great scorer two things… Kobe’s regular season average has routinely been higher than his playoff average for his career. and two, he has only average more than 30 points a game twice. MJ averaged more than 30 points a game for nearly a decade (seasons), and he significantly improved his scoring output in the playoffs. I really don’t know why this is even a discussion.

  88. H2theOH Says:

    *correction:
    Oh, and I’d like to add to that, for people who talk about kobe’s “prolific” scoring. He has torched insignificant teams during the regular season for his highest totals, and thats fine and dandy, but for such a great scorer two things… Kobe’s regular season average has routinely been higher than his playoff average for his career. and two, he has only average more than 30 points a game twice. MJ averaged more than 30 points a game for nearly a decade (8 seasons), and he significantly improved his scoring output in the playoffs. I really don’t know why this is even a discussion.

  89. HeifeHerbvelp Says:

    Read more about Top Ten Vacation Spots For Sumerset Houseboats visiting our website. Profit making aspect make it possible for any organization to run its internal supplies constantly without experiencing in loses which might derail the performance. While surprisingly low costs are on offer by auctioning for goods this way, issues can happen with popular things that the last price of an auctioned product is higher than its original value.The jeans are distressed throughout and get the worn await to them. But with the right venue, you can land a job in one of the best legal firms in the industry. The addition of New Jersey decks to one’s home makes a good [url=http://www.officialbillsnfl.com/authentic-scott-chandler-jersey-womens.html]Scott Chandler White Jersey[/url] way to increase the living space with a minimal investment. Here are some tips to help you make your little ones become enthusiastic with home gardening. Post updates on these resources when there are new articles [url=http://www.officialbillsnfl.com/authentic-jairus-byrd-jersey-womens.html]Jairus Byrd Blue Jersey[/url] to get readers there immediately. Make sure [url=http://www.officialbillsnfl.com/authentic-kevin-kolb-jersey-womens.html]Kevin Kolb Pink Jersey[/url] to hire a contractor with a solid reputation and lengthy work history. Old and worn-out curtains will make your home look dated and worn-out as well.Be aware that low self esteem is an an acquired behavior that can be changed. You can easily and affordably market your watch repair service business or watch repair center by using some lapel pins or other small, needle mounted objects. Make sure you have the capability to determine how many of any particular item you have on hand at a given moment.

Leave Your Comment