“There’s a big difference between 6′9 and 7′0.”

Okay, how about Karl Malone? Malone is the exact same size as James.

“You’re tremendously underrating how difficult it is to develop a post-up game. It is, as I said, a completely different skillset than playing on the perimeter.”

I don’t think I am. I only think I’m correct when I state that it would be easier for James to develop a low post game than it would for him to become the shooter he needs to be.

“You’re acting like LeBron isn’t an efficient player.”

I’m sorry if I gave you that impression. Although I don’t feel that way. I just believe he could take his efficiency to entirely different level playing down low.

Beyond that, I can tell you that LeBron’s efficiency has continued to rise throughout his career, despite the fact that he has taken on a larger role almost every year, and that last year was clearly the best season of his career.

Looking past just statistics, the most clear improvement in LeBron’s game has been defensively, where he has very noticeably improved over the last two years, and now he’s a borderline All-Defense team guy.

“Have teams been successful at denying Duncan the ball? How about Shaq in his day?”

1) There’s a big difference between 6′9 and 7′0.

2) Working without the ball to seal off your defender and get post position is just as much a skill as a hook shot. A huge portion of the work done in the post is putting yourself in a position to get easy looks. Shaq and Duncan are both very good at this, there are an abundance of post players who aren’t. That’s another skill LeBron would have to learn.

“Like I said above, it wouldn’t happen overnight, but I think James could develop a lethal post game much quicker than he could refine his jumpshot.”

You’re tremendously underrating how difficult it is to develop a post-up game. It is, as I said, a completely different skillset than playing on the perimeter. There’s a reason why skilled offensive post players are in high demand, those skills don’t develop overnight.

“I’ve never questioned James’ talent. I think he’s infinitely more talented than Kareem, Hakeem, or even Shaq ever were. But those players were incredibly efficient. And James has the size and skill level to have that kind of impact down low.

It’s a big mans game. When you have a guy that big and that skilled, he needs to be used in the most efficient way possible. For me, that means playing him in the frontcourt.

You wouldn’t see James driving to the basket and posterizing people and you probably wouldn’t see as many no look passes. But you would see incredible efficiency and nightly triple-doubles.”

You’re acting like LeBron isn’t an efficient player. LeBron is already more efficient than Hakeem ever was, and he carries a much greater load on offense than any of the players you mentioned.

I can see them having LeBron guard PFs and just playing 4 perimeter guys in a 4-out set to exploit mismatches, but if you bury LeBron in the post you’re wasting the skills he has.

Like I asked Rock, what has LeBron added to his game that increased size and athleticism haven’t afforded him?

Nine times out of ten I would agree with your statement that you don’t become a great player without a great work ethic. But I don’t think we’ve ever seen a talent like LeBron James. He’s transcendent.

You said, “As soon as you turn LeBron into a post-up player, teams are going to adapt. They’re going to deny him the ball, they’re going to send extra defenders at him before he catches. You’re acting like LeBron could instantly become an amazing post threat. You noted the success of post players like Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem and Kareem, but it would take years for James to develop anything remotely approaching the post skills of any of those guys.”

Have teams been successful at denying Duncan the ball? How about Shaq in his day?

Like I said above, it wouldn’t happen overnight, but I think James could develop a lethal post game much quicker than he could refine his jumpshot.

I’ve never questioned James’ talent. I think he’s infinitely more talented than Kareem, Hakeem, or even Shaq ever were. But those players were incredibly efficient. And James has the size and skill level to have that kind of impact down low.

It’s a big mans game. When you have a guy that big and that skilled, he needs to be used in the most efficient way possible. For me, that means playing him in the frontcourt.

You wouldn’t see James driving to the basket and posterizing people and you probably wouldn’t see as many no look passes. But you would see incredible efficiency and nightly triple-doubles.

Again, with all due respect, results are the point. How can one make the argument that he puts in the time without pointing to an added dimension in his game?

I don’t doubt that his TS% increased slightly this year. Although he only increased his free throw percentage by .014 and his three point shooting percentage by .004.

I’m not surprised that people in the Cavs organization and Cavs fans are content with LeBron’s development. It’s almost as if he can do no wrong in Cleveland. Even the owner blames the media for focusing on rumors of his departure, when LeBron continues to add fuel to the fire.

When I said that LeBron needs to learn to play off the ball, I was talking about his tendency to dominate the basketball and dribble down the shot block before making his move. Yes, he needs a better supporting cast. But I thought he took a step back last season in regards to making his teammates better.

I know I’m not going to change your mind Rock, I just hope he gets a few more minutes playing in the frontcourt next season. I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

I think you’re making a big mistake trying to take observations from the Olympic team and apply them to the NBA season. Things are completely different in the two scenarios. There are four other All-NBA level guys on the floor that the defenders have to worry about, four other guys who can create their own shot. You can’t possibly extrapolate that to the NBA season. As soon as you turn LeBron into a post-up player, teams are going to adapt. They’re going to deny him the ball, they’re going to send extra defenders at him before he catches. You’re acting like LeBron could instantly become an amazing post threat. You noted the success of post players like Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem and Kareem, but it would take years for James to develop anything remotely approaching the post skills of any of those guys. You act like he could instantly transition his ability to beat guys off the dribble into the low post, but that’s not how it works. Everything is different working in the paint. The footwork is different, there are a lot more hands poking at your dribble, there’s a lot less space to use his length and explosiveness. When LeBron gets into the lane from the perimeter, most of the time he isn’t dribbling the ball once he passes the 3PT line, he’s just cradling the ball, taking a long stride, and exploding above everybody. That’s not the case when you catch in the paint.

Look, I’m all about LeBron adding a post-up component to his game. Jordan did it and it complemented his other skills well. However, to exclusively put James in the post would be a waste of the considerable talents he already has.

As for defending the power forward position, LeBron actually does it from time to time, and holds his own, but defending that position in the NBA is totally different than defending it internationally. That being said, though, I have all the confidence in the world in LeBron defending the 2, 3, or 4. He is sometimes asked to even defend the point, but I think that’s his weakest position at defending.

I just think in these Olympics you’re seeing what LeBron can do when surrounded by talent, more so than any kind of revolution coming out of him playing a different position. I don’t feel like LeBron can be defined by any one position. He plays all over the court for Team USA just as he does for the Cavs.

I guess I just don’t really understand what you’re all getting at here. You say “He has to learn to play off the ball”, but he knows how to do it. He’s showing it with Team USA. It’s different, though, playing off the ball when you’re being triple and quadruple teamed like he is on the Cavs than when you’re facing straight up man defense or even zone defense like he is in the Olympics.

I think most people in the Cavs organization and Cavs fans are perfectly happy with LeBron’s game. I don’t think LeBron is the problem at all, I think it’s his teammates in Cleveland.

Fair enough.

I’ll admit that LeBron is a more than capable defender when he’s motivated. In fact, I’ve seen him defend Kobe as well as anyone ever. But I don’t think he’s consistent on that end of the floor. And I still see him make more than his fair share of errors during the regular season.

As for LeBron’s work ethic, what he has he added to his game that increased athleticism and size haven’t enabled him to achieve? Has he added a stepback jumper? The fade away? Is he hitting the long ball with greater accuracy? Has he really become a better shooter?

Because I don’t see it Rock. And I watch the Cavs often. I probably saw James play at least 50 times last year.

I know that his passing has improved. And you could make the argument that he’s become a better ball-handler. But are those improvements the product of a lot of time spent in the gym, or are they improvements that come with 100’s of regular season and playoff games?

The Spurs held him to 36% shooting in the 2007 NBA Finals. The Celtics accomplished the same thing this past season.

You could make the argument that he needs his teammates to knock down shots to create space, but the Celtics and Spurs practically dared him to hit from outside. And he couldn’t.

I won’t argue that LeBron hasn’t benefited from playing with 4 guys who can knock down shots with Team USA.

Although I have yet to see the United States actually post LeBron up on the block and work off of him. Instead, I’ve seen more of him playing the high post from the power forward position and creating from the free throw line in.

I think LeBron is very good when he’s attacking the hoop as well. And he’s been phenomenal when he’s caught the ball at the free throw line and allowed to operate behind the defense when he plays power forward. How often does that happen with Cleveland?

Shooters or not, LeBron is practically indefensible when he gets the ball behind the defense.

I suppose that’s possible if LeBron continues playing the three. But I wonder if he hasn’t already developed too many bad habits like over-dribbling. If he continues to play the three, will he get in the paint, or will he drift out around the three-point line and demand the ball at the top of the key? He has to learn to play off the ball. He’s much better finishing plays than starting them.

As much as I question Mike Brown, I wonder if it isn’t James that isn’t reluctant to post up.

Moving him to the power forward spot sounds like a radical move, but you never know, he might be open to it after seeing the benefits in these Olympics.

I know you think LeBron is a better defender than I give him credit for, but how would you feel about him defending from the power forward position?

I’ve been very surprised with his shot blocking, rebounding, and help defense from that position.

Furthermore, I still think you are WAY off base questioning LeBron’s work ethic. If you ask those who cover LeBron and those who are familiar with the Cavaliers organization, they will tell you that LeBron is also the hardest worker on the team. Your questions in the past about LeBron’s motives and what he wants out of basketball have been fair, but I don’t think the questions about his work ethic are fair at all. Those are 2 separate issues, and one doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the other. Yeah, LeBron’s not Kobe, but nobody is when it comes to work ethic. But LeBron does put it in the time to improve and make himself better, as we have witnessed the past few years.

Finally, to address your main point, I do agree that I would like to see LeBron utilize the post a little more often, but the main thing you’re missing is that a big part of the reason why LeBron is so effective in the post in the Olympics is that he’s surrounded by 4 other (3 when J-Kidd is on the court) great offensive players who open things up for LeBron. In Cleveland, he doesn’t have that luxury. In Cleveland, the offense needs to be run by LeBron or else it does nothing at all. Now, maybe Mo Williams can help that, and perhaps he will change the way the Cavs play offense a bit, but I still think LeBron is at his most dangerous when he’s attacking the hoop and driving the lane. I wouldn’t mind seeing LeBron play the post a bit more, but a full time switch to the 4 just isn’t going to happen. That’s not LeBron’s game, and it’s not going to be any time soon. He’s going to continue to use his superior athleticism to gain advantage over opposing 3’s who try to guard him.

I think this was an interesting article from a “hmm, think about this…” point of view, but it’s not based in much reality. LeBron is not going to be playing the 4 any time soon, nor do I think he really needs to. LeBron is doing just fine at the 3, he just needs some other players who can score to force defenses to be more honest.

I really think both of you guys are looking at this the wrong way. You both believe LeBron James will be “limited” down low.

I’ll admit, he won’t have as many options. And it wouldn’t be as aesthetically pleasing to watch him operate closer to the basket.

But like I wrote above, the NBA is and has always been a big mans game. Tim Duncan isn’t exciting to watch. Neither was Shaq, Hakeem (to a certain extent), Kareem, or Jordan (in the latter part of his career).

But they were/are all EXTREMELY EFFICIENT. Low post scoring provides more than high percentage shots. It gives your offense a balance that perimeter scoring cannot.

James could become a GREAT low post scorer. And I’m telling both of you, he could be a great playmaker from 10-15 feet in.

LeBron had 8 assists today. How many times did he catch the ball behind the 3-point line. Three? Four? I know he hit two three-pointers. But he was making plays from within the three-point line. Mostly from the free throw line extended.

X, you said, “It’s also significantly easier for James to improve his jumpshot over the next few years than it is for him to learn the post moves required to be as dominant in the post as he is on the perimeter.”

I disagree completely. The closer James is to the basket, the better his shooting percentage will be. It takes a lot longer to become a great 3-point shooter than it does to develop a baby hook from both blocks. And besides, James isn’t dominant ON the perimeter. He’s dominant because he gets to the basket.

Tsunami, you said, “Look, Hoff, I know you still think LeBron has a long way to go, but I think you’re severely undervaluing his playmaking skills.”

I don’t think I am. I know LeBron can make plays. I think he would be even more effective if he was making plays from the power forward position. Not to mention the benefits that would arise from his increased rebounding and quarterback role defensively.

I actually didn’t watch much of that series. I’ve never been impressed with the Cavs offensive sets. Every time I watch them they look disjointed and run far too many P-and-Rs with Lebron starting 25 feet away from the rim on the left side of the court.

“If they knew how to really set picks the way the Hornets do for CP3 and the Suns do for Steve Nash, they would be a much better team.”

The problem with that kind of scenario is that the Cavs don’t have anybody who makes you worry when they’re rolling to the rim. Nash and CP3 are so dangerous in large part because Chandler/West/Stoudamire/Marion are so good on the other end of that pick and roll. The Cavs run a lot of pick and pops with Big Z, but that’s not the same, and they have no one who you fear rolling to the rim.

“Mike Brown loves to control the tempo, slow down the game, make it a possession game, stay close, rebound the rock, and let LeBron make the decisions.”

Honestly, I wish Cleveland would run much more than they do. LeBron is the most devastating open-court player in the game, maybe the best transition player of all-time. Why not make use of that more often, especially if you’re not great at designing halfcourt sets?

Just because the Celtics (one of the best defensive teams of all time) forced LeBron into tough shots that he didn’t convert (for the FIRST HALF of the series) doesn’t mean you sell the farm. Despite what you think about LeBron’s consistency at perimeter shooting, he’s raised his field goal percentage almost every year since coming into the league. The only problem with his 3pt shooting is that he settles for it too often. The reason he does this is so he can go into VGBM mode – Video Game LeBron Mode. In games where his 3 starts dropping, he immediately becomes the most unstoppable basketball force to ever grace a court. If the D sags or goes under picks, he drains 3s, if they sag with the exception of the ball-defender, he finds teammates wide open all over the court, and if they play solid man on man defense it becomes a layup/dunk/and-1 fest. When Lebron’s 3s aren’t dropping he’s still the best player on the court, but when they are dropping it’s almost inconceivable that the Cavs lose.

Look, Hoff, I know you still think LeBron has a long way to go, but I think you’re severely undervaluing his playmaking skills. I know you think I’m just a homer, but his passing skills are the BEST IN THE LEAGUE when you take into account his court vision, creativity, size, and strength. He can see everyone on the court at all times, he is a very creative passer especially on drives to the rim, he can pass OVER anybody, and he has the strength to throw full-court chest passes and acrobatic sailing-in-the-air crosscourt passes. Also, most of what I’m reading from you and X about the Cavs offense must come from the series with Boston. The Cavs offense had more flow this year until the “blockbuster” trade was made. I will admit the offense was very ugly after that trade, but Mike Brown installed lots of back cuts and the like in the beginning of the season. The biggest problem with the Cavs offense is that no one knows how to set a pick and no one knows how to use a pick on the Cavs. Watch a game sometime and pay attention to this. The Cavs are THE WORST pick-setting GOOD team I have ever seen. That alone really attests to the defense and LeBron’s prowess. If they knew how to really set picks the way the Hornets do for CP3 and the Suns do for Steve Nash, they would be a much better team.

[Trying to get back on track now....]

LeBron will always be the strongest and fastest pound for pound player on the court. He will never play the post on offense. I like what you are saying about defense though. And let it be know that LeBron is the best defender on a very good defensive team. You shouldn’t be noticing this now – he was outstanding all year in 07-08. At the end of the day, or shot clock, LeBron will always be the best play-maker on the Cavs – or anybody’s roster. Last year with Jason Kidd at starting point guard, LeBron dished out more assist in the Fiba Americas. I’m sure he’s up there right now in assists as well. He’s always going to be a perimeter player on offense. Up until this year the Cavs have always had a strong front court and have loved to play big. When they went the Finals they had the tallest starting 5 in the league. We’ll see if the addition of Mo Williams changes things, but Mike Brown loves to control the tempo, slow down the game, make it a possession game, stay close, rebound the rock, and let LeBron make the decisions. It’s a formula that has taken a severely anemic roster to the cusp of greatness 3 years in a row now.

I hope LeBron works on his post-game. He needs to develop one for the sole purpose of punishing smaller defenders. When James Poseys and the like are reaching/grabbing/slashing at him he needs to stick his big ass into him and back him down. He doesn’t do that now, and he needs to – but let’s not get carried away and try to turn the skill sets of Magic Johnson/Dominique Wilkins/Charles Barkley into Horace Grant.

You’re also overstating his lack of a jumpshot. He’s a 32% 3PT shooter. That’s not great, but it’s also not bad for a guy who takes practically every shot off the dribble with a hand in his face. There are plenty of guards who have been successful with a worse jumpshot than that.

“And while his playmaking skills are good, he’s just as responsible for the Cavs stagnant offense as Mike Brown is.”

His playmaking skills are GREAT. He’s got better floor vision than most point guards. I firmly believe Mike Brown is the worst offensive coach in the league, he’s terrible. There really is very little beyond “give the ball to LeBron and see what happens”. They desperately need a coach in there with a good offensive mind.

Defensively, It could certainly work. There’s no doubt he could defend most power forwards. It’s not like he has to play 4 on offense to play 4 on defense though :P.

I don’t think James would be easier to defend on the block. In fact, I think he would be even more dangerous.

And there’s no reason he can’t post up 10-15 feet away from the basket from the power forward position in addition to post up opportunities on the block. The point is to get him the ball behind the defense where he can utilize his quickness against bigger players and his size against smaller ones.

James may not have great post up skills, but he doesn’t possess a great jumpshot either. And while his playmaking skills are good, he’s just as responsible for the Cavs stagnant offense as Mike Brown is. He takes what seems like an eternity to decide what he’s going to do with the basketball. His choices would be limited and more effective if he operated closer to the basket.

What do you think about the benefits defensively?

I’m going to be off-line for a few hours, so I guess I get the last word…for now.

;)