Comments on: Weekly Wrap-Up http://ballerblogger.com/2009/01/12/weekly-wrap-up-4/ NBA blog Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:58:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Brandon Hoffman http://ballerblogger.com/2009/01/12/weekly-wrap-up-4/comment-page-1/#comment-12909 Brandon Hoffman Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:19:28 +0000 http://ballerblogger.com/?p=912#comment-12909 It's not as if the Nuggets have experienced a huge dropoff since Camby left. They're still 14th in points allowed per 100 possessions. I'm not going to argue that Camby has zero impact, but again, I think you're overestimating him. I can't argue my points with numbers. I can only say that Camby does not provide the intangibles that I believe should be required of an elite defender. I'm sure you've seen Camby play from time to time, but I don't think you've watched him extensively. Trust me, you wouldn't make this argument if you watched him night in and night out. It’s not as if the Nuggets have experienced a huge dropoff since Camby left. They’re still 14th in points allowed per 100 possessions. I’m not going to argue that Camby has zero impact, but again, I think you’re overestimating him.

I can’t argue my points with numbers. I can only say that Camby does not provide the intangibles that I believe should be required of an elite defender.

I’m sure you’ve seen Camby play from time to time, but I don’t think you’ve watched him extensively. Trust me, you wouldn’t make this argument if you watched him night in and night out.

]]> By: xphoenix87 http://ballerblogger.com/2009/01/12/weekly-wrap-up-4/comment-page-1/#comment-12853 xphoenix87 Tue, 13 Jan 2009 02:14:39 +0000 http://ballerblogger.com/?p=912#comment-12853 That's not the point. The point is that whatever Camby does, it works. Maybe he's not an elite on-ball defender, but he's such a great rim defender and rebounder that he makes up for it and then some. His whole career, he's made bad defensive teams good ones, and made good defenses great. That's the proof for me. If it were simply a case of great statistics, maybe there's an argument, but Camby produces results, pure and simple. Unless I think that someone else on that Denver team made them a top 10 defensive team, which I definitely can't see, I have to give Camby credit for that. By the way, I've watched Camby play, I'm still making this argument. That’s not the point. The point is that whatever Camby does, it works. Maybe he’s not an elite on-ball defender, but he’s such a great rim defender and rebounder that he makes up for it and then some. His whole career, he’s made bad defensive teams good ones, and made good defenses great. That’s the proof for me. If it were simply a case of great statistics, maybe there’s an argument, but Camby produces results, pure and simple. Unless I think that someone else on that Denver team made them a top 10 defensive team, which I definitely can’t see, I have to give Camby credit for that.

By the way, I’ve watched Camby play, I’m still making this argument.

]]> By: Brandon Hoffman http://ballerblogger.com/2009/01/12/weekly-wrap-up-4/comment-page-1/#comment-12844 Brandon Hoffman Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:05:45 +0000 http://ballerblogger.com/?p=912#comment-12844 No "statement" will "constitute conclusive proof." That's why I continue to plead with you to watch the guy play. He's a weak on-ball defender. He's a good shot blocker from the weakside -- that's it. That doesn't mean he's an elite defender. Garnett, Howard and Duncan are elite defenders. They defend the pick-and-roll and they rotate to stop penetration and alter shots they have no shot at blocking. Camby doesn't provide those kinds of defensive intangibles. No “statement” will “constitute conclusive proof.” That’s why I continue to plead with you to watch the guy play.

He’s a weak on-ball defender. He’s a good shot blocker from the weakside — that’s it. That doesn’t mean he’s an elite defender. Garnett, Howard and Duncan are elite defenders. They defend the pick-and-roll and they rotate to stop penetration and alter shots they have no shot at blocking. Camby doesn’t provide those kinds of defensive intangibles.

]]> By: xphoenix87 http://ballerblogger.com/2009/01/12/weekly-wrap-up-4/comment-page-1/#comment-12841 xphoenix87 Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:38:48 +0000 http://ballerblogger.com/?p=912#comment-12841 We've had this discussion many, many times, and the only argument you ever give is "he only goes after the shots he can block", as if that statement constitutes a conclusive proof. Despite the fact that Denver surrounded him with terrible defensive players, a fact that you yourself have commented on many times, Denver constantly hovered around the top 10 defensive teams in the league while Camby was there. That's with Camby regularly missing 10-20 games a season. Now, either we were wrong about Allen Iverson and Carmelo Anthony being crappy defenders, or Camby is significantly better than you give him credit for. Here are the defensive ranks for the two New York teams Camby was on where he played significant minutes, and the Denver teams he played on (leaving out the years where he played less than half the season). 6th 3rd 13th 8th 13th 11th 10th This is all without mentioning his prodigious rebounding and shot-blocking stats, and the fact that he defends without fouling. No, he's not Duncan or Garnett. Those guys are two of the top 10 defenders of all time. However, there are precious few players in the league who impact a game on the defensive end like Camby does. We’ve had this discussion many, many times, and the only argument you ever give is “he only goes after the shots he can block”, as if that statement constitutes a conclusive proof.

Despite the fact that Denver surrounded him with terrible defensive players, a fact that you yourself have commented on many times, Denver constantly hovered around the top 10 defensive teams in the league while Camby was there. That’s with Camby regularly missing 10-20 games a season. Now, either we were wrong about Allen Iverson and Carmelo Anthony being crappy defenders, or Camby is significantly better than you give him credit for.

Here are the defensive ranks for the two New York teams Camby was on where he played significant minutes, and the Denver teams he played on (leaving out the years where he played less than half the season).

6th
3rd
13th
8th
13th
11th
10th

This is all without mentioning his prodigious rebounding and shot-blocking stats, and the fact that he defends without fouling.

No, he’s not Duncan or Garnett. Those guys are two of the top 10 defenders of all time. However, there are precious few players in the league who impact a game on the defensive end like Camby does.

]]> By: Brandon Hoffman http://ballerblogger.com/2009/01/12/weekly-wrap-up-4/comment-page-1/#comment-12836 Brandon Hoffman Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:26:07 +0000 http://ballerblogger.com/?p=912#comment-12836 Marcus Camby is not an elite defender. I know you're a numbers guy X, and I'm all for points scored per 100 possession and pace, but you really have to watch Camby to get a feel for his defensive presence. Yes, he's a shot blocker, but he doesn't alter very many shots because he only goes after the ones he can block. Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, and Kevin Garnett are elite defenders. Camby was HOUSED by Pau Gasol in last year's playoffs. I love Gasol, but he's not a great low-post scorer. Call Camby a great shot blocker if you must, but once again, you're giving him far too much credit on the defensive end. Marcus Camby is not an elite defender. I know you’re a numbers guy X, and I’m all for points scored per 100 possession and pace, but you really have to watch Camby to get a feel for his defensive presence. Yes, he’s a shot blocker, but he doesn’t alter very many shots because he only goes after the ones he can block.

Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, and Kevin Garnett are elite defenders. Camby was HOUSED by Pau Gasol in last year’s playoffs. I love Gasol, but he’s not a great low-post scorer.

Call Camby a great shot blocker if you must, but once again, you’re giving him far too much credit on the defensive end.

]]> By: Tsunami http://ballerblogger.com/2009/01/12/weekly-wrap-up-4/comment-page-1/#comment-12833 Tsunami Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:31:47 +0000 http://ballerblogger.com/?p=912#comment-12833 great recap X! only thing I would add is that the NBA is going to have to move the 3 point line back after the Magic win the Championship this year by shooting 65% from three like they have the last 3 games. Seriously they are KILLING IT from three. Last night they were like 14-21 against the SPURS IN SAN ANTONIO! You're not supposed to hit that many threes on the road, especially not against a good defensive team. oh and it was me that brought up the guard's carrying, and roost that added TP to the mix. great recap X!

only thing I would add is that the NBA is going to have to move the 3 point line back after the Magic win the Championship this year by shooting 65% from three like they have the last 3 games. Seriously they are KILLING IT from three. Last night they were like 14-21 against the SPURS IN SAN ANTONIO! You’re not supposed to hit that many threes on the road, especially not against a good defensive team.

oh and it was me that brought up the guard’s carrying, and roost that added TP to the mix.

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